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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Sep 25, 2014 - 07:12am PT
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And Sketch, it's not CO2 'forcing', it's CO2 'sensitivity'.
Here's a gold star for you for effort in the 'trying to sound smart' category.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 25, 2014 - 07:52am PT
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Latest fudge of climate numbers shows continued scam
What, no source? I see why.
Because when folks post stuff that's not from a scientific journal, The Chief knocks it down with a line similar to the following, "Now you're quoting blogs as if they were from a scientific journal," or, "so-and-so isn't a scientist."
And The Chief would never post something that isn't from a scientific paper because if he did, he'd be a hypocrite.
And then Sketch, who also jumps on folks when they post quotes from blogs, would have to jump on his cohort, which could lead to ugly things.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Sep 25, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
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I can understand your frustration Bruce, what with the majority of the populace (including us who vocalize here) not taking the multi hundreds of billion dollar government and enviro organizations hysterical climate propaganda stream as anything but fiction. No amigo, blame the incompetent scientists and bumbling government/criminal element for not being able to construct a bullet proof fiction with that amount of funding.
As for sympathizing with you over the imminent collapse of this socialist chosen vehicle and the consequent endangerment of implementation failure to the agenda you seem mentally, if not financially dependent on, I do not. Either shut the whining trap and crawl out of the bottle to seek gainful employment or crawl back in and seek solace from the worm.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:30pm PT
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I guess you have placed your trust in a group of experts ,that, in spite of having untold billions of dollars and the late 20th century solar grand maximum on their side, proved themselves to be more a bumbling criminal enterprise than as scientists and pols with a believable imperative.
You see Bruce, no one person can achieve expertise in all disciplines, in fact relatively few. One can inform themselves to the best of their abilities, but in the end you must rely on the expertise of the most experienced , informed , intelligent and trustworthy of people in fields you do not have enough time and energy to achieve true expertise for yourself. And now what might be beyond your ability to comprehend; recognition of truth. You approached this debate already having rigid beliefs that probably extended far past any realm of logic, through emotion, and possibly to material investment of significant proportions as compared to your means. I have no such dog in the fight, having believed in the narrative before
lies I witnessed with my own eyes and ears prompted me to study the science I could access . What this revealed to me is the large group of scientists whose expertise I trust. They are not the CAGW group.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Sep 25, 2014 - 10:37pm PT
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Sep 26, 2014 - 09:45am PT
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Ending Thought:
Can I look back on my life and call mine a life well lived if I have not done something to further humanity?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
 Just a memorable video....
Is it real?
Does it exist?
I am personally proud to have her as a speaker on my behalf...
How about you?
Dear Matefele Peinam
Kathy Jetnil-Kijiner
dear matafele peinam,
you are a seven month old sunrise of gummy smiles
you are bald as an egg and bald as the buddha
you are thunder thighs and lightning shrieks
so excited for bananas, hugs and
our morning walks past the lagoon
dear matafele peinam,
i want to tell you about that lagoon
that lucid, sleepy lagoon lounging against the sunrise
some men say that one day
that lagoon will devour you
they say it will gnaw at the shoreline
chew at the roots of your breadfruit trees
gulp down rows of your seawalls
and crunch your island’s shattered bones
they say you, your daughter
and your granddaughter, too
will wander rootless
with only a passport to call home
dear matafele peinam,
don’t cry
mommy promises you
no one
will come and devour you
no greedy whale of a company sharking through
political seas
no backwater bullying of businesses with broken morals no blindfolded
bureaucracies gonna push
this mother ocean over
the edgeno one’s drowning, baby
no one’s moving
no one’s losing
their homeland
no one’s gonna become
a climate change refugee
or should i say
no one else
to the carteret islanders of papua new guinea
and to the taro islanders of fiji
i take this moment
to apologize to you
we are drawing the line here
because baby we are going to fight
your mommy daddy
bubu jimma your country and president too
we will all fight
and even though there are those
hidden behind platinum titles
who like to pretend
that we don’t exist
that the marshall islands
tuvalu
kiribati
maldives
and typhoon haiyan in the philippines
and floods of pakistan, algeria, and colombia
and all the hurricanes, earthquakes, and tidalwaves
didn’t exist
still
there are those
who see us
hands reaching out
fists raising up
banners unfurling
megaphones booming
and we are
canoes blocking coal ships
we are
the radiance of solar villageswe are
the rich clean soil of the farmer’s past
we are
petitions blooming from teenage fingertips
we are
families biking, recycling, reusing,
engineers dreaming, designing, building,
artists painting, dancing, writing
we are spreading the word
and there are thousands out on the street
marching with signs
hand in hand
chanting for change NOW
they’re marching for you, baby
they’re marching for us
because we deserve to do more than just
survive
we deserve
to thrive
dear matafele peinam,
you are eyes heavy
with drowsy weight
so just close those eyes, baby
and sleep in peace
because we won’t let you down
you’ll see
See more at: http://www.rtcc.org/2014/09/23/marshall-islands-poet-we-deserve-to-do-more-than-just-survive/#sthash.JvJOnAMk.dpuf
And in my final hours...
Can I look back on my life and call mine a life well lived if I have not done something to further humanity?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Sep 26, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
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You do babble on incessantly, now don't you Bruce? If I ever had to rope up with you on a lengthy climb I would precondition it by requiring a sock in your mouth and a full roll of tape firmly fixing it in place, any person wanting to retain their sanity would require this.
Now, to answer you a final time . I was accepting of global warming up to about 2003. At this point Ak had distinctly cooled for four years. Winters of old had returned, but I kept hearing from crackpot freindly media that alaska's warming was accelerating unabated. Later we had to endurethe complete fallacy of P-Bears being endangered as well as sociologists posing as climate scientists claiming that native villages situated on constantly shifting coastal sands and barrier islands that have been eternally mobile were climate refugees. All, bald faced lies used as aids to advance a rabid environmental agenda. There was no mistaking it, and after some studying up, I came to realize the scam CAGW science was.
Believe what you will Bruce, but I can tell you this: I've researched this topic enough to competently judge the validity of large parts of the reams of material by comparison to the truth of the observational record.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 27, 2014 - 07:51am PT
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^^^^In addition to Down's Syndrome?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2014 - 08:05am PT
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Nice collection of old posters, but I think The Chief is mixing metaphors again.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Sep 28, 2014 - 11:51am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Sep 28, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
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If nuclear war is a good analogy, then we better start making huge efforts to reduce the threat, just like we did/do with nuclear weapons.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2014 - 03:19pm PT
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I'd say AGW is firmly in the NOBODY GIVES A SH#T! camp.
The physics of climate change are not influenced by the politics of climate change.
Large Protests In Hundreds Of Cities Vent Ire Over Climate Change
300,000+ in DC, but no MSM coverage. Indeed, I suppose nobody cares, if all you look at is the US MSM.
Also interesting is how the main article in the WSJ focused on the number of arrests made. Figures.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Sep 28, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
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More on that single paper study that attracts so much attention from deniers because they think it says what they want to hear.
It seems far more reasonable to consider the whole range of estimates before figuring out the best summary, which is what the IPCC does.
http://www.climatedialogue.org/climate-sensitivity-and-transient-climate-response/
read the Guest blog John Fasullo, a few excepts
"...Specifically, the increase in storage in deeper ocean layers has led to a relative reduction in the rate of warming of the upper ocean.
When this vertical structure is averaged out, for example by considering the total ocean heat content (OHC) from the surface to 2000 meter (Figure 1) the data show remarkable constancy in the rate of warming from the 1990s through 2000s. They also show a dramatic shift in how that warming has occurred as a function of ocean depth between decades, with the uppermost layers warming little in recent years in conjunction with rapid warming at depth."
"The general lack of strong decadal shifts in total OHC have recently been corroborated by estimates of global thermometric sea level rise from satellite altimetry, which show remarkable persistence in the rate of thermometric expansion since 1993 (15). Further, efforts to deduce variability in the planetary imbalance from the satellite record of top of atmosphere radiative fluxes also find little change between the 1990s and 2000s"
"Lastly, there is a need to move beyond global mean surface temperature as the main metric for quantifying climate change (21). Improved estimates of ocean heat content have been made possible though data from ARGO drift buoys and improved ocean reanalysis methods. Similar advances are being made across a range of climate indices (e.g. sea level, terrestrial storage) and are likely to be fundamental in providing improved metrics of climate variability and change, evaluating models, and narrowing remaining uncertainties."
http://skepticalscience.com/gwpf-lewis-crock-climate-sensitivity-optimism-ill-founded.html
http://www.skepticalscience.com/questions-on-climate-sensitivity-answered.html
more comments have been added here, calculating Koonin's errors.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/wsj-downplays-global-warming-risks-again.html
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Sep 28, 2014 - 05:57pm PT
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Sketch - I totally get that.
I agree. Just a sounding board of sorts...
Then again, I'm really too ignorant of most every way I have available to me to help reverse climate change.
I wish I could do more than sit on the sidelines and hope for the best..,.
But, isn't that what a majority of us do right now anyway?
Cheers all
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Sep 28, 2014 - 08:00pm PT
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sketch claims: "Since the Climate Summit took place, there have been over 200 new posts. Only a few mentioned the event. Props to Jingy for Kathy Jetnil-Kijiner's poetry. If this thread is a microcosm of public sentiments, I'd say AGW is firmly in the NOBODY GIVES A SH#T! camp."
I guess we were waiting for you to take the lead as you said you would on Aug 27:
"As I've said before, I would support any GLOBAL effort to reduce pollution. But I'm not too gung-ho about tightening my belt without the cooperation of China, Russia, India etc." http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=970221&msg=2475585#msg2475585
Since a Global effort is just what the UN is talking about, I guess you will be taking the lead on pushing the discussions towards having every country do their part.
to the following add just plain greedy
Werner said Sep 2, 2014 - 07:39am PT
Bottom line.
Americans are just plain ignorant and stooopid.
They will only care about "Climate Change" when it actually effects them to the point when there is no more food and water.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Sep 29, 2014 - 03:27pm PT
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Politics comments:
it's true many people don't think it's a top priority;
however following polls is not a rational argument for what we should do.
Some reasons for misguided opinions
1. Many are too concerned that it is too big a sacrifice, or think the government will screw up any GHG policy, which is mostly an overblown concern. Revenue neutral carbon taxes are quite simple, effective, and not a big burden. However they are easily dismissed by calling them Higher Taxes (instead of user fees). When carbon taxes are shouted down by the simpletons, we will likely end up with a complicated scheme of indirect methods & carbon trading, which require much more careful government control & monitoring, and which will be gamed by the next Enrons. Similar to the Fed and SEC failure to regulate Wall Street.
Even higher MPG rules on cars is an indirect method to control GHGs and is far less effective than fuel taxes. MPGs do not affect fossil fuel electricity plants. MPGs do nothing to directly pay for external costs. It takes a long time to replace all cars, with no disincentive to stop driving old ones, plus categories like trucks, vans and toys that are allowed much higher fuel use. But we don't even have the gumption to keep our palty fuel taxes up with inflation. If you read that IMF report that Ed posted, they have figures on the price elasticity of various carbon taxes.
1a. Selfishness. Top value is materialism and consumption no matter what, and not willing to consider the long term big picture.
2. going to vote based on party line, regardless of who runs.
3. the media gives way too much credence to deniers.
4. Worries about handing jobs over to a different state or country, which can only be handled by disciplined insistance on a Global effort backed up by Strict enforcement. Since this was the main worry going back to Kyoto, why don't Republicans get it written differently this time, instead of using that as an excuse?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Sep 29, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
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