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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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This spill is Cheney's baby - hook, line, and stinker.
About all you can really claim in this regard is Obama & Co. has failed to correctly prioritize which of the federal agencies corrupted and / or gutted by the Bush administration they should attempt to restore first.
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Yvergenhauf
Trad climber
UT
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Skip,
A majority of Fortune 500 companies pay less than half of the 35% corporate tax rate. So when you say we should lower the tax rate for corporations, what exactly do you mean?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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So Skip you are saying we should quit doing business the Reagan/Bush I/Bush II way.
I completely agree. Let's bring in some Clintonian Capitalists like you asked for.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Doug, when you are confronted with the fact that your issue is one of Government interference in the economy most people wouldn't cut and past the applicable legal description in order to say there is no government involvement here.
Skip,
I am taking issue with your original premise that in a free market you are allowed to do business with whomever you want.
I provided direct evidence that your premise is wrong.
Nothing more, nothing less.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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How about we stop this nonsense about how some corporations don't give us the product we want and start .... getting out of the way and letting new corporations with CAPITAL and SKILL come in and clean the clocks of these old dinosaur companies.
Get rid of the corporate tax. Let entrepreneurs take the risk and reap the rewards instead of government politicos handing out grants to their friends.
Its called free market capitalism and it works everywhere it is tried. And in this case it is the best friend you have to get out of this mess.
Skip provides another example of why those Republicans are so wrong on everything.
When provided with evidence that greed led to this catastrophe, he suggests more greed.
BP caused this spill by insisting on replacing the heavy drilling fluid with sea-water, so they could re-use the fluid.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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A majority of Fortune 500 companies pay less than half of the 35% corporate tax rate.
This makes the point in spades.
Let me ask this, "Why do you think these other companies have been driven off our shores?"
Do you think cost has to do with some of this? Do you think the cost of taxes gets in the way of labor costs? Is this not a perfect example?
If we want labor to get as many jobs as they can why would anyone ever lobby to increase taxes on those who would hire them.
Give the money to labor. Quit the blood sucking in Washington.
So, if we tax the corporations less, they'll be more beneficent and less greedy???
/crackhead?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Right on Phil...Obama was left with two wars, not one, two wars, a major recession, high unemployment and an economy on the verge of collapse...but his first priority should have been revamping the Mineral Management department...what a bunch of fecking wankers!!!
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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You can't polish a turd, but Skipt and John are giving it a good try.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Wanda wrote: So, if we tax the corporations less, they'll be more beneficent and less greedy???
No, they would just pay higher dividends, millions to upper management and make the drones work more hours for less pay and benefits.
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Yvergenhauf
Trad climber
UT
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Let me ask this, "Why do you think these other companies have been driven off our shores?"
Because if they can maximize profit by paying someone to work in their factory for $1.00/ day, why would they pay someone here to do it. Especially if they had to avoid wrecking ecosystems.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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For BP, Haliburton, Cheney and the OILogarchy the waste in the water is nothing compared to the wealth in the well.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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"You can't polish a turd, but Skipt and John are giving it a good try."
Actually Jerry you can. To a fine mirrored sheen if that episode of Myth Busters is to be believed.
It's just that Skipper and John are still un-polished.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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To all of those who think that BP will do the right thing might want to talk to the fisherman and the populace around the Exxon spill.
Almost 21 years later and they are still waiting for payment and there is oil that still needs to be cleaned up!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Philo,
This particular drill started in February of 2010. Sorry, you can't blame this on the Republicans and maintain intellectual honesty.
And Jeremy, if those regulations were so perfectly apparent, why weren't they in place? The current administration had plenty of time to do that.
And please don't argue against a complete lack of regulation. To my knowledge, no one on this thread has argued for it.
The Democratic partisans can continue trying to blame the Republicans, Bush, Cheney, Capitalism, or whatever villain-du-jour they wish, but I doubt that they can convince anyone but themselves.
John
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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And to suggest that it is wrong to complain and lay blame unless you quit driving is absurd misdirection.
welcome to the reality of the fukktards that supported Shrub, Cheney and the GOP. yup... those are the same fukktards that try and defer blame for the crap they've unleashed when said blame lands straight in their lap.
maybe they have an extra long baby apron and they somehow think it'll allow said blame to drip right off....
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Bob,
My participation is the latest circle on this thread started when apogee opined that blame for this lies outside that of political parties. I chimed in to agree. Rather than using blame, which has a non-helpful pejorative connotation, I'd rather use responsibility.
To me, those who leased this particular field from the United States and drilled this well have the moral, legal and financial responsibility for remediation and restitution. I doubt there's any serious disagreement there.
You're free to try to spin this as a philosophical or partisan win for the Democrats, but I don't see how you get there witout admitting that they cannot control their own government, run by their own people. That's where, to me, you no longer accept responsibility, but merely try to shift the blame. The Democrats are going to that well rather too often.
John
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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John wrote: You're free to try to spin this as a philosophical or partisan win for the Democrats, but I don't see how you get there witout admitting that they cannot control their own government, run by their own people. That's where, to me, you no longer accept responsibility, but merely try to shift the blame. The Democrats are going to that well rather too often.
John...you seems to missing major points here.
1. Two wars.
2. Major recession.
3. Health care.
4. Stimulus
5. High unemployment.
6. Housing crisis.
So of course Obama should have taken on the Mineral Management department after being told by various sources that (BP for one) that they had the tools and could handle this type of crisis.
And of course the republicans were portraying him as a socialist who already was taking over half of American private industries already.
What was he thinking??
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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John wrote: I chimed in to agree. Rather than using blame, which has a non-helpful pejorative connotation, I'd rather use responsibility.
Your posts are riddled with blame...95 percent on the democrats.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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The number of oil and gas leases on federal property sky-rocketed under Cheney and Bush...do you think there is a correlation between that and the massive oil spill?.. the endangered species act was constantly under assault by the the Bush administration...I think it is quite clear where the blame for this environmental disaster belongs even though Bush is long gone and hiding...Blame Obama...? for what? the oil-friendly administration you supported by electing bush for 8 years...? Who consistently vote against higher gas mileage cars and mass transit...the republicans...Duh?..rj
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