southern yosemite

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Slater

Trad climber

Central Coast

Nov 21, 2010 - 12:35am PT

What Mucci said.

Although I can say I've had more fun climbing at Shuteye than pretty much anywhere else I've ever climbed. Devil's tower was awesome, Black Hills Needles was fantastic, and I do like Clark Canyon and Needles. But Shuteye feels like home.

two2tandem

Trad climber

BASS LAKE, CA

Nov 21, 2010 - 01:13am PT

About a foot and a half of snow today at Cold Springs Summit at the top of Beasore after the first wave of snow came through last night. Supposed to get another two feet or so tonight.

Unless you've got something with tracks, looks like Shuteye is closed until things thaw out in June.

Nate D

climber

San Francisco

Nov 21, 2010 - 02:35am PT

I don't think rincon was necessarily asking if there were any routes comparable to Astroman (in length and sustained difficulty) per se, although when the question was posed yesterday, I too immediately thought, wow, yea, nothing really like that to be found at Shuteye.

So what are the classics? It's a fine question, and as suggested, there are so few folks climbing in the region, and so many places and routes to climb (many of them quite new), that I don't think any one person feels qualified to define the few classics of the entire region.

Many classic moderates exist for sure, largely due to the featured granite, but I'm sure there are those who would attest that there are certainly some great hard sport routes as well as some bold testpieces throughout the region.

Bottom line: come see for yourself. IMO, probably as it should be... and the way it's been for most of the "regulars" over the years.

this just in

Ice climber

north fork

Nov 21, 2010 - 11:05am PT

Nate you're right you just got to get out there. I would recommend High Eagle because it has up to 5.13 sport routes and some really good multipitch trad routes. Grahm and I did a trad line up the left side that was put up about 20 years ago. One of the best routes I've done and it was 4 pitches with crux @ 5.10.
I believe directions are somewhere on this thread. Good luck. If you're looking for splitter cracks you won't find a plethora of them but they're out there, like Nate said go find them or wait a couple more years for the guide.
I'm @ around 3,000 feet and we have 5 inches and it's dumping now. So it most likely is done. Bummer. La Nina will get us up there in late April to May. None of this June talk, come on let's be optimistic.

mooch

Trad climber

Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)

Nov 21, 2010 - 12:04pm PT

Awww, c'mon folks......it doesn't hurt to speak out about what you believe are classic. Nothing in that sentence that defines WHO/WHAT/WHY.

Nate, you always were vague.......don't be sceered. Break out of "safe answer mode"....

So, I'll pose the question:

"What do route(s) do YOU believe could be potential classics?"

rincon

Trad climber

SoCal

Nov 21, 2010 - 12:04pm PT

Yeah I just used the Astroman comparison because it's supposed to be the best route in the Valley. I've seen it compared to like that in the Seki guide, where it says A Tall Cool One is "the Astroman of Kings Canyon"...that's all.

I haven't had the pleasure of climbing there yet and I'm curious if there was anything worthy of being called The Best Route at Shuteye. Supposedly there's a guidebook in the works...will there be some sort of star desination for the good routes or will it be lacking one of the most useful functions of a guidebook?

There's got to be routes there that stand out (thanks Dave for mentioning a couple) from all the others, or routes with a reputation as a bold lead, like the Carson / Kodas Arete.

mucci

Trad climber

The pitch of Bagalaar above you

Nov 21, 2010 - 03:27pm PT

I think it is going to be tough to assign a star system to many of the routes at shuteye.

Sport routes, sure. High eagle, 557's, Etc are all proven as classy sportclimbing areas. Many a folk have been there and repeated the routes.

As far as ALL of the other destinations, which get maybe 3-5 teams a season?

I don't know how you can attach a *** rating on a route that has seen less than 3 ascents.

I could name 50+ gear routes that have not seen a second ascent. Just throwing a # out there...

How could you determine the quality on routes that have only the FA's word to go on?

Classic to me is walking up, and picking the best looking line/stone one can see, a perfect corner, a perfect flake, a knobby wall. A route that one is drawn to and climbs as good as it looks.

But one cannot attach "Classic ***" until others have confirmed it's worthiness IMHO.

Here is to a good winter delay!

Mucci

Grahm Doe

Sport climber

Just South Of Heaven

Nov 21, 2010 - 08:22pm PT

Ya, we got a little snow at our house too.

As far as star ratings go I have to include them in the guide even though many of the routes have not seen a second ascent. Climbing most of the routes myself helps put them in to context when comparing them against each other. I enjoy gear, sport, solo, ground up and top down routes so I don't really favor one over another. Many people have said that even some of the "bad" climbs at Shuteye would be "great" if they were located at other areas.

A 5 star system would be to much for now with so many routes unrepeated. And over 600 to rate.

I am going with a 3 star system, more basic and harder to screw up. Every route will have at least 1 star.

Each wall will most likely have its own 3 star route. Compared to other routes on the same wall but not necessarily the whole of Shuteye.

1 star - climb it after you have done the others on the wall.

2 star - recommended, good quality.

3 star - If you can only climb one or two at this wall these are the select few to get on for sure, regardless of grade.

I am also using feed back from others to help get a consensus on the routes they have climbed and put up.

Once everything has been compiled and star rated I hope to offer the top 20 must do climbs for Shuteye. Again, input from you all will be critical to getting this done but also very difficult as most have not sampled even half of the routes at Shuteye. But, if you have climbed or sampled all the routes on one wall your opinions would be much appreciated for that wall.

Slater

Trad climber

Central Coast

Nov 22, 2010 - 12:13am PT

Snow - boooo!
Shuteye... see you next spring!

Grahm, good luck on a top 20. Impossible getting a consensus on that one.

Mucci right again. And my own opinion is that what makes three star routes good is FINDING them after doing the one and two star routes.

If all you do is show up and climb the classics, something will be lacking for sure, like perspective. And a lot of the 1 and 2 star routes are better than the 2 and 3 star routes at other areas. And what appeals to one climber might not appeal to another (OW, too hard, too easy, not steep, too steep, bolts, no bolts, etc.).

Some of the routes i did in 2007 that I thought were "amazing!" are now not as amazing compared to the other routes I've climbed since.

I think Shuteye is more about the place and the experience, not just about classics. If you're just route poaching, then you're gonna miss out on so much...

I'm sure we can all give suggestions... Vertical Dawn, Playing with Matches, Dreaming in Color, Walkabout, but you wouldn't know what the hell we were talking about or where to find 'em.

Better to get out there and stumble upon some of 'em. Like they said, use your eyes and pick what looks good.

are we up to 1500 posts already? damn

this just in

Ice climber

north fork

Nov 22, 2010 - 11:01am PT

No Tom we're at 1501.

this just in

Ice climber

north fork

Nov 22, 2010 - 11:08am PT

Walkabout is 2 star Dreaming in Color is 3 star. Not sure about the other two. Tom do you concur?

Nate D

climber

San Francisco

Nov 22, 2010 - 03:39pm PT

Rincon,
Here are a few routes Vernon gave 2 or 3 stars that might interest you. All are in the 3-5 pitch range on incredible rock. I'd love to hear from anyone who has climbed the routes on Queen's Throne and can confirm the quality. Tork perhaps? I've got to get out there eventually. Vernon said most of these routes would be considered "superclassic" in any other area.

Queen's Throne:
Snake Eyes 5.12c 1989 Eric Richard, Herb Laeger, 5/89
Catching Some Shuteye 5.11b 1989 Herb Laeger, Eric Richard, Eve Laeger, 6/89
A Climber's Requiem 5.10c 1987 Eric Richard, Herb Laeger, Greg Vernon, 10/87
Midnight Caller 5.11d or 5.10 A1 1989 Greg Vernon, Blaine Neeley, 89; FFA: Mark Spencer, 6/90
Risin' of the Moon 5.10 . 1988 Greg Vernon, Herb Laeger, Eve Laeger, 9/88
Black Madonna 5.12a or 5.10a A1 Greg Vernon, Hollan Holmes, 7/90, FFA Herb and Eve Laeger.
Whiplash 5.12a or 5.10b A2 Eric Richard, Herb Laeger, 5/89
Wait Until Dark 5.10c 1989 Ron Carson, Greg Vernon, Blain Neeley, 6/89
Welcome to Shuteye Ridge 5.11a . Herb Laeger, Bob Kamps, Eve Laeger, 10/88
Crown Jewel 5.12b 1989 Eric Richard, Herb Laeger, Bob Kerry, 6/89
Jeepers Creepers 5.11 . Herb Laeger, Eric Richard, Bob Kerry, 6/89
Coronet 5.8 . Royal Robbins, et al, mid 70s
(NOTE: a number of these routes may need bolt replacement)

High Eagle:
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik 5.10a 1988 Jim Matthews, Greg Vernon, 10/88 (Is this what you climbed recently Justin and Grahm, or was it Song of the Night 5.10a 1987 Eric Richard, Herb Laeger, Greg Vernon, 10/87 ?)

Chiquito Dome:
August Knights 5.10c 1986 Vaino Kodas, Patrick Paul, 8/86
Sahib 5.10b 1983 Tom Higgins, Chris Vandiver, 7/83
(unfortunately, these first two routes will now be rather hard to follow, due to a number of modern lines which now cross them. Sahib in particular, was purported to be a very ballsy lead)
Elegance 5.11a 1980 Tom Higgins, Chris Vandiver, 11/80 (This is supposed to be THE classic bold route on the dome, and thanks to Clint C. it's bolts have been upgraded, thanks to Clint and the ASCA. http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/621065/Elegant-Inclinations-Chiquito-rebolting-photo-TR-6-7-08 Clint can confirm the quality.)
Top Gun 5.10a 1986 Greg Vernon, Blaine Neeley, 7/86

Thomas Hartmann gave these routes 3 stars (but as with some of the routes above, this is the FAists word only):
Minerva Dome:
Massively Parallel 5.10d 1993 Felix Gropp, Thomas Hartmann, 9/93; FFA: Roger Leuthner, Stephen Ruoss
Greed, Envy, Gluttony, Sloth, Lust, Pride, Wrath 5.10a 1996 Elaine Cocuzzo, Thomas Hartmann, 9/96
(The Godar's can confim the quality)

Fallen Eagle:
Judgement Day 5.10a 1996 Elaine Cocuzzo, Thomas Hartmann, 9/96

As for bold testpieces, aside from Elegance and Sahib on Chiquito Dome, Carson certainly made his mark in a few places, and those routes are bound to be spooky. Don't know who else has climbed the lines, so who can confirm the quality? Grahm?

As discussed some time ago in this thread, the star system definitely has it's drawbacks and kinks. However, anyone new to an area, including myself, usually appreciates the recommendations.

I would think for the top 20 classic routes, it'd be handy to have them categorized by grade, and maybe even trad vs. sport within those grades.

mooch,
As for "potential" classics to which I am quite biased, knowing them intimately, I agree with yours, and would also include "Seek and Ye Shall Find" 5.8 - a natural line of weakness up steep knobs. And there are some new ones in the backwoods that may qualify. Time will tell.

rincon

Trad climber

SoCal

Nov 22, 2010 - 09:12pm PT

Thanks you guys, good info!!

I am looking forward to a guidebook. With so many different rocks, and all those routes, and history, it's overdue. Sure it will bring more climbers...maybe even some Lemmings too haha! And I sure hope they have some of those really cool cartoon drawings like in the old Spencer guide.

Too bad about August knights and Sahib, it'll be interesting to see how the topo looks for that.

Slater

Trad climber

Central Coast

Nov 22, 2010 - 09:43pm PT

this just in
-you're being way too humble... Walkabout gave me that "this is so damn cool" feeling on that steep headwall. 3 in my book holmes... and GU and "no bolts!" despite the RBBC creed.

Rincon, I can only recommend routes I've actually climbed, otherwise I'd be just telling you what others liked and I have no idea what they consider classic. Some of those sickos think chimneys are classic ;)
Even with recommendations... that won't get ya very far.
But I hear that John and Sue are good guides ;) ;) ;)

Get out there and enjoy the Shuteye vibe and pretty soon everything feels classic.

Ricky D

Trad climber

Sierra Westside

Nov 22, 2010 - 10:28pm PT

Heard from my buddy wintering in at the bottom of Grizzly Road that his meadow at 5100 feet has 27 inches of slop and powder. Meadow Bob also says that the wind is coming up something fierce - he can see big arcing swirls of ground blizzard by the light of the moon coming off Shuteye about 2 miles to his west.

Brrr.