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sween345
climber
back east
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Nov 16, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
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Will all the houses that will need to be rebuilt be subject to the new construction solar mandate?
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Nov 16, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
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Yo Clyde, just ordered your book.....looking forward to reading it.
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john hansen
climber
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Nov 16, 2018 - 07:10pm PT
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They should require that all structures that are rebuilt have fire resistant
roofs walls and eaves. Metal roof's with Hardie Panel fascia and eaves,
and Hardie board siding. They have special eave vents to prevent embers
from getting into the roof space. Not sure if even all those things would
work against such a wind driven fire with houses so close to one another.
Think of all the homes in Paradise that were built in the 70's and 80's
and 90's that had cedar shingles and exposed plywood eaves and T1-11
siding and wooden decks.
My heart goes out to the people of Paradise.
There will be a lot of hard times ahead for so many.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Nov 17, 2018 - 07:57am PT
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a lot of those Paradise homes that got torched were built on big lots with a lot of room between the neighbors. as you can see from the pics coming out, there is nothing left but cement slabs. even the metal melted. so much for building houses with fireproof materials. when you get 50 mph winds in a forest, what you have is a huge blowtorch that is going to take out anything in it's path. simply not true. even your paragraph i quoted proves it wrong. non flammable materials don't become flammable because of wind. Those cement slabs still standing are evidence of that. It seems the major source of fuel as it moved through paradise was paradise itself.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Nov 17, 2018 - 08:52am PT
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That's BS and disrespectful to those that have lost their lives and everything they own.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Nov 17, 2018 - 09:04am PT
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*
That's BS and disrespectful to those that have lost their lives and everything they own. +1
TomCochrane, take your bullshit elsewhere.!!
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TLP
climber
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Nov 17, 2018 - 09:05am PT
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August, I'm with you: customers should pay the costs. Everything we do needs to follow the "clean up your own mess" principle: want power lines, pay for them to be installed and maintained in a way they won't start giant fires annually (exactly during high wind events as pointed out above). Use fossil fuels, pay to mitigate their climate effects. And so on. But we've allowed ourselves to fall into a rut of feeling it's somebody else's responsibility. Not good.
Ground chuck, you're full of nonsense. A glance at the graphic you included shows that your first statement is 100 percent false. Building materials make a huge difference, but if there are wooden time bombs 20 feet away, it doesn't help much. Either you need more space, without much ground fuel, or every house needs to be more fire resistant.
Go online, look at all the places there are before and after photos posted. There's lots of unburned vegetation all around the destroyed buildings. The closest plants are scorched by the burning buildings, but once the fire got into Paradise itself, it was not at all a stand-replacing vegetation fire that happened to burn a lot of houses along the way; on the contrary, it was basically an urban fire burning structure to structure. True, the roadsides of escape routes were subject to vegetation fires, but the developed area, that was primarily an urban fire. We'll have annual repeats of this exact kind of event until we recognize what's actually happening and do something about it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 17, 2018 - 09:09am PT
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Well, let’s be honest here, a cigarette tossed out of a car window is a directed energy weapon for all intents and purposes.
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John M
climber
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Nov 17, 2018 - 09:56am PT
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Take a breath everyone. Its just a link.
I got the same message Tad. The bug is just trying to get you to go to their site to "fix" the problem they created. If you didn't click on anything, then you should be fine.
Tom.. that stuff is way too far out for this thread. For the most part this thread is about support and information about the fires that are happening right now. I know that we are talking about fire behavior and how this one started, but your theory is more then people can listen to right now. So if your really need to talk about it, then perhaps start a different thread. But realize just how terrible this current situation is and cut people some slack. If in a month or two, then start a thread. Otherwise, please keep it off this thread. People are grieving.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 17, 2018 - 09:57am PT
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Y’all could just let it be, you know.
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John M
climber
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Nov 17, 2018 - 10:01am PT
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now thats funny Reilly.. Like there aren't people on this forum who wouldn't take that theory and run with and take the emphasis away from supporting people. Its a mind f*#k and people don't need that right now. At least not on this thread.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Nov 17, 2018 - 10:46am PT
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Don't shoot the messenger, but I'm not relating as a disinterested observer.
One of my good friends just now sent me a picture of her destroyed house in Paradise, recently remodeled:
I spent most of my summer clearing brush around my house in the woods and other fire prep work ... not sure how much protection it offers.
I know what it's like to face a forest fire. I was first fireman on scene this summer to a forest fire threatening my neighborhood started by a logging slash pile fanned by high winds... just me with one fire hose with the tender driver and 3000 gallons and no safety zone or escape route. An hour later we had a dozen engines and hundred fire fighters from multiple departments, a bulldozer and bucket helicopter chasing spot fires.
If you want to form opinions without looking at the data, don't say you weren't warned, just that you didn't listen.
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John M
climber
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Nov 17, 2018 - 11:03am PT
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come on guys.. take the conversation to a different thread.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Nov 17, 2018 - 11:04am PT
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Good questions, Jim Brennan, that's the constant challenge: trying to match observed effects to possible causes ... determining ignition sources forensics is a standard part of a firefighters training ...
A standard cover-up methodology is making the truth seem outrageous and then driving the follow up discussions into realms of the unbelievable.
Yesterday that link was straightforward. Today that link is boobytrapped. So does that tend to discredit the information or what?
And isn't this the all purpose wildfire thread?
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John M
climber
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Nov 17, 2018 - 11:14am PT
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And isn't this the all purpose wildfire thread?
Yes and no.. sometimes its good to start a different thread.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Nov 17, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
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I completely agree with the strong sentiments that this shouldn't be happening. Unfortunately it is, in fact just the tip of the iceberg. We need to deal with it, and not by denial and ignorance and character attacks.
My house is probably more at risk to forest fire than most of you, and I work hard to provide for its protection.
We woodland firefighters use a tool called a Pulaski, invented in 1911 by a Forrester named Ed Pulaski, credited with saving the lives of a crew of 45 firefighters during the disastrous fires in northern Idaho in August 1910. His story is told in Timothy Eagans highly recommended book The Big Burn, Teddy Roosevelt and the Fire that Saved America. The town where I was born was in the center of that conflagration. Compare the aftermath pictures of that natural forest fire with what we are seeing today.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 17, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
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Trump's nose for notoriety. Not an ounce of freakin' real concern or pity.
Sorry you had to smell that turd, too, Andy, after what you've seen.
Also, "The rancor! Oh, the rancor!" It becomes us not, Tacos.
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jbaker
Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
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Nov 17, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
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The NCVF says that 1% of donated funds is used for administration and distribution of the funds. They, of course, have larger expenses, but fire donations aren't going to general administrative expenses, other than the 1%.
Clyde - Thanks for the pointer to your book. I'm reading it now.
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