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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 11, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
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Thanks, Chief Watson, for the update. Looks like I was wrong -- sounds like the Morales family has not been previously interviewed. So I hope they provide lots of useful information!
Thanks for the library information. I did have one question (maybe I or someone else here can contact Detective Hornbeck directly). You say that “there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com.” Do you mean that the library has WiFi and there was only one person who accessed that site using a wireless device such as an iPhone? As far as I know, Matt’s phone did not have internet capability, (please correct me if I'm wrong) so he would have accessed the internet using the library's PCs, not through WiFi. Or do you mean that the PCs in the library connect to the internet through the library’s WiFi and that there was only one person who contacted that site, whether on a PC or through WiFi?
Edit: Apparently though the library also has WiFi, the library's workstations are connected through a wireless network, so that might have been all that was meant.
Also, is it possible to tell what dates people accessed those sites using the PCs at the library? (I had thought that info was lost, but if it's possible to tell which sites were accessed, maybe not...) We know Matt was in the library on the 16th. I think that climbing sites that were accessed in the last days before Matt disappeared, and especially on the 16th, would be of special interest. We know Matt posted something on Summitpost on the 16th, but we don’t know what other sites he looked at, which he might have used to plan his activities on the 17th. Knowing that might help narrow things down.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 11, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
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MGuzzy, I agree that it’s important to know that Matt (or someone) turned his phone on at 2:53am on the 17th, and it would be great to know exactly when the text was sent so we know when Matt's phone was off or unreachable.
Looking at Matt's movements on the 16th: According to the phone records, Matt was in town during mid-afternoon (spoke for 24 minutes with his parents, apparently saying the car would be ready on the 18th but that the garage might string it out later).
Then his last communication for which we have a location was on the afternoon of the 16th, when he called the repair shop at 4:29pm (1 minute) and 4:35pm (2 minutes), from the direction of Mammoth Mountain (perhaps from near the main lodge). I wonder what they told him in those brief calls, and whether the person who answered the call could even answer his question. (Maybe to confirm it would be ready on the 18th, or to see if it might actually be done sooner?)
After those calls on the 16th, Matt sent and received texts intermittently between 4:40pm and 8:34pm, apparently with friends in Pennsylvania, and according to Tiffany, everything seemed fine. I had assumed that the final couple of texts sent/received were from his tent, but you’re right that he could have been elsewhere. (Doesn’t seem the type to be into night life, however.)
Finally, while it looks like Matt turned his phone off within a certain range of times each night, our evidence on when he typically turned it on is less clear. As I’ve said before, the only reason we know his phone was on at 2:53am that morning is because it received a text from the night before, which registered at that time. On many other days, the only evidence we have of the phone being on is from late afternoon, yet Matt may well have turned on the phone earlier in the day, or even in the wee hours of the morning. Unless he made or received a call or text, we can’t tell whether his phone was on or off. (Maybe Verizon has more info about this, but we can't tell it from the log we have.)
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 11, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
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Tioga,
Thanks. Yes, I'd feared that the phone's on/off info would no longer be available.
I have a question regarding the library records. Chief Watson says that Detective Hornbeck checked with the library and found the following:
During July, there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com. Other sites accessed include mountain project.com, climbing arc.com, and super topo.com. Unfortunately, the Library cannot determine who accessed the sites. They don't check the ID of computer users and have no way of knowing who is online at any given time.
What do you think is meant by "wireless client"? Would this mean a library patron using a wireless device such as an iPhone, or do you think it would include access to the internet using the PCs in the library as well as WiFi? Or is it not clear what was meant?
The reason I ask is that as far as I know, Matt's phone didn't have internet access and he was in the library to use the PCs...
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 11, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
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Thanks, MGuzzy! I just called the library to confirm (and also to find out whether the library has WiFi, for my own info if I go to Mammoth Lakes).
The patient, overworked woman said that the library does have WiFi and confirmed that the PCs are connected by some kind of non-commercially available wireless network, though she implied that wasn't her area.
Because I'd explained why I was calling, she also volunteered that someone had called to try to see if Matt might have printed anything out, but that thousands of people print things out there, so that info would not be easy to find.
She wished us luck.
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kenish
Gym climber
Orange County, CA
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Sep 11, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
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@mguzzy- By "his timeline", I meant the amount of time he had consciously and subconsciously planned for his activity on the 17th. Matt seemed like the type to plan and coordinate around all the variables (daylight, transportation, weather, etc), just like a flight plan when I go flying. Combined with his car not being ready the evening of the 17th means he probably wasn't in a hurry or rush. It also sounds from other people's comments that if his progress was falling short of his plan or nightfall, he'd turn around before rushing ahead to his goal (nicknamed "get-there-itis" in aviation...cause of many accidents). But I'm second guessing someone I don't know, and could be way off-base.
BTW, is your screen name short for Motoguzzi? Cool if it is!
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kenish
Gym climber
Orange County, CA
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Sep 11, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
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@mguzzy- Cool on your screen name. Mine is just a mashup of my first/last names. BTW, I edited my previous post after you responded.
Also, I'm working on posting to the best spot on MTBR.
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kenish
Gym climber
Orange County, CA
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Sep 11, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
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Posted to mtbr.com forums- General, Socal, and Norcal with a link to the FB page, and asked anyone with info to respond on FB. But I will check MTBR for replies, too.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Sep 11, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
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@mguzzy & LA – “During July, there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com. Other sites accessed include mountain project.com, climbing arc.com, and super topo.com”.
-so we know Matt accessed summitpost in july from the library, therefore we can confidently say this 1 person was Matt. Correct?
“Unfortunately, the Library cannot determine who accessed the sites. They don't check the ID of computer users and have no way of knowing who is online at any given time.”
This does not matter – because we know that 1 person was Matt.
Therefore, if we cross check that IP address from the library with climbing arc.com, ST, and mountain project we will know what he looked at and may have responded to. Split and me should be able to do this. ~ron
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kenish
Gym climber
Orange County, CA
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Sep 11, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
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^^^ @tdg-
That is probably not a good assumption. The library computers seem to have a hardwired connection; if true, wireless accesses are through personal devices (iPad, smartphone, laptop, etc). Matt didn't own a laptop, and his phone was not a smartphone, correct?
Mammoth Lakes is a hiking, fishing, climbing, running, and cycling destination. Access to outdoor/wilderness websites by the general public is much more likely than at a typical library. Many visitors don't have WiFi access where they are staying, so it's likely they would go to the library for access...Matt being one example.
The accesses to the websites very well could have been Matt...but far from certain.
The idea to ask the website owners to look through their access records is good. There are several complications...most websites have a service "host" their sites. The websites should be contacted first, but may not have easy access to the logs. (Contact them through "about us" or "Contact us"...you can also do a "whois" inquiry to find out the registered owner of any URL). The other issue is the IP address of the library and computers in the library. Depending on how the library and ISP configure and secure their network, the ISP may change every time a new browsing session opens.
Definitely worth pursuing but pointing out some hurdles in the pursuit.
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Supermama
Social climber
pa
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Sep 11, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
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Hi all,
Just got in from work and read posts to get caught up. Couple of things stood out...I agree with Kennish, I don't think he was in a hurry because the car place was not in a hurry to fix his car. He was always on the go like I am, so I would be bored and want to do something....
Tiffany and Ron... aside from climbing and running, did Matt have any other hobbies?
I did check some of the other forums earlier on, but no Matt Greene in any form in the search engine. Did he use a code name? Maybe if we each took a web site to research, it wouldn't be so overwhelming. I spent hours one day looking. One of the sites you couldn't view without a password.
The detective is looking into the emails, however the phone could be subpoenaed as well. That's how they caught my stalker a few years ago. Ron and Tiffany would have to do request that from the police.
Just a thought...if my phone is out of a reception area or off, I do not receive emails until I turn it on or am back in an area of reception. I have a data phone, though.
Let's hope the Morales come through with some information as well. I don't know that we will be privy to the info though.
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Ikat
Social climber
Carson City
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Sep 11, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
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Thanks ex-stzzzo
I had been looking at that Summitpost profile, too.
His post on July 16 is sort of odd. It isn't really pertinent to the geographic area, and it was an old article from 2008. I get the impression of a guy in the library trying to burn off time, not having too much to do.
If I read his profile correctly, he is listing 93 places in the Summit Register list, but none of these appear to be associated with this summer's trip.
There has got to be away to search the Library PC files to see what was being searched for that afternoon. There won't be a hundred people searching. It would take some sort of access priviledge and time. Shoeleather time in the LE world. Unfortunately I'm not currently in the area and have other distant committments, but I'd be willing to search the computer a couple of hours if I could. I'm doing it here at work already.
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kenish
Gym climber
Orange County, CA
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Sep 11, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
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^^^ Stzzo- Sorry, you're correct. I misread the library employee's comments to LA Hiker. So, it may have been from an internal library computer or a personal device brought into the library. It's still uncertain whether it was Matt or someone else.
Usually public access computers log off automatically after just a few minutes of inactivity. That protects against a new user hitting the "back" button to snoop on previous user(s) activity. My local library has signs emphasizing the need to log out. I'd expect the IP addresses to change often..especially if the library uses software to block ads and cookies.
@ikat- I recall a few weeks ago that the library clears out browsing history every evening. That would be expected SOP for public access computers. The drives could be forensically searched because files aren't completely erased, but requires legal intervention and the library allowing removal of the hard drives. 7 weeks have gone by and the chance of latent data still being there diminishes with time. The "erased" data is free disk space available to overwrite new data, and eventually that will happen.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 11, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
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Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and expertise. If there's any way we can find out what Matt accessed on the 16th, that would be great. I gather from what people are saying that that may be difficult, so I hope that there's progress in getting access to Matt's email and in interviewing the Morales family.
One caution re my conversation with the library employee. Her response did seem to confirm MGuzzy's interpretation that the library's computers were connected by a wireless network and thus that the "wireless carrier" referred to by Detective Hornbeck could have involved Matt's activity on a PC and not wasn't just someone else coming in there with a laptop or smartphone.
But because I know very little about this area, I didn't know how to confirm it by asking for details or how to probe further about it. The employee was kind of busy and it might not have been her area either. So if further info is needed maybe someone who is more knowlegeable can talk with library people (and especially whoever handles the computers and internet there) under more relaxed conditions. Maybe SplitPants has already done just that.
And maybe Detective Hornbeck can clarify what he thought was meant. Because he's presumably very busy, I wanted to get see if the library could answer my fairly basic question.
I do have a question about this. How did the library tell that someone had accessed those sites? Presumably not by looking at "history" on their PCs, because apparently that's deleted at the end of each day.
Would they looked at or searched a log of all internet connections made by the library? If so, and assuming that the log includes connections made on the PCs and not just by Wifi, could they search it by date and time? If so, maybe they could see if a bunch of mountaineering sites were accessed on July 16th, at around the time Matt was there. Also, if they know that the sites were accessed, would the library's log also have info about which pages were accessed??
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SplitPants
Social climber
LA
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Sep 11, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
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All,
Thanks for all of the info and ideas. We are working on obtaining information from the library network admin. We will know more regarding the follow up/results late Friday. So perhaps we can change the topic to something else like areas to search or something along those lines?
Thanks and keep your fingers crossed:)
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CyDuke
climber
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Sep 11, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
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Don't know if this will be of any benefit, but here is a link to quite a few high res images of the Ritter Range area. Some pics are very close up, other are area scenic shots. There are also a handful of videos. (There are 5 pages of images, the videos are on page 5). These pics were taken a week or two after Matt was last seen, but I am not sure of exact date. Image names say July, but the blog post says August. It was after the fire had started because there are some pictures of the distant smoke.
Anyway, I looked at pictures for any kind of clue, but didn't see anything. But, this may show what the conditions were like at the time. I don't know how much of a difference a week or two could make, maybe not much, maybe a lot. And it also might eliminate some areas that have to be searched on foot??? Not sure, I know there is also a lot in the area that is not captured digitally.
The pics are captivating. Really something. I did not try to make contact with owner of these pictures to see he came across anything unusual (hat, crampons, backpack, etc).
http://hikenhi.smugmug.com/Davids-Hiking-and/Mount-Ritter-July-2013
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kenish
Gym climber
Orange County, CA
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Sep 11, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
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FYI the library has 24 internal computers and public access WiFi. As posted before, presumably Matt would have used their computer since he didn't have his own device. On July 16, a Tuesday, the library was open until 9pm.
http://www.monocolibraries.org/branches/mammoth-lakes
I agree that mining the individual library computers for browsing history is a dead end that's been discussed several times. If the library has a consolidated log of internet traffic or if the various websites make their logs available to family or MLPD, it could contain clues....but "boots on the ground" searches by back country expert volunteers shouldn't wait on that.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 12, 2013 - 12:09am PT
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SplitPants, thanks for the update re the library -- sounds promising, knock on wood.
Kenish and MGuzzy, thanks for the info and explanation. It would be great if the router log contains useful info for us...
Cyduke, thanks for the link to the pictures and videos, and thanks for checking them over carefully. Even if there weren't any noticeable clues, the pictures give a good sense of the area and conditions. Some are so detailed, it's almost like being there.
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Sep 12, 2013 - 12:57am PT
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Stzzo ---
Couple of odd things about summitpost...
The MattGreene profile page says "Last Active: Sep 11, 2013".
There's a user "MG13" who joined on Jul 16 and has posted only one post: http://www.summitpost.org/users/mg13/107266, http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/post929627.html#p929627
re:
I looked at post by MG13 (could be mountain goat or matt greene?)
Could this be helpful info for the search?
Re: Wind River Conditions? ~ Fremont Peak
Postby MG13 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:40 pm
Just wondering how your Gannett attempt went and what the snow looked like through the Titcomb/Booney Pass/Gannett area.
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Sep 12, 2013 - 01:14am PT
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Emailed Matt's poster to every place in my area I could think of including
Dear Wendy,
We shared it with our 10k+ members. We hope it helps.
Sincerely,
Escondido Downtown Business Association
Is there a similar group in Mammoth Lakes to send Matt's poster to?
Could someone send Matt's poster to horse riding groups who may have seen something or may in the near future?
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