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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Sep 21, 2014 - 10:20am PT
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Ed, I like you as a human being, but trust your presentations as truth I do not. You have let desire to fit in with the trendy intellectual elitism bias your every thought on all things climate science and the politics driving it. It's nice you are doing your part to support your wack job bretheren on this day of peoples climate march .
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 21, 2014 - 10:27am PT
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you don't have to "trust" rick, I've been saying that for a long time...
what I put out here is verifiable...
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Sep 21, 2014 - 10:48am PT
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Oh you mean verifiable like the facts that: polar bear populations are healthy and growing contrary to alarmist claims, the first order weather stations throughout alaska show a decline in temps over the last thirteen years of 2.4 f, total global ice mass is above the sarellite era mean and increasing, there have been a seven year string of severe winters in large parts of the NH, global mean temperatures have been flat to cooling over the last fifteen plus years, no individual climate model has even come close to accuracy in projections of all weather phenomenon known as climate, the sun was in a highly energetic state for most the mid to late 20th century, the sun is now entering into a period of markedly reduced activity , the IPCC was founded by a criminal, the modest rise of .8 c over a period of 150 years is not unusual in the climate histiry especially considering we were coming out of a prolonged period known as the Little Ice Age, and on and on.
But I dont want to rain on your parade so ill leave the short list of climate science facts and exposed myths there.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 21, 2014 - 11:30am PT
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polar bear populations are healthy and growing
you've got a citation to the scientific literature, I'm sure, please post it here
the first order weather stations throughout alaska show a decline in temps over the last thirteen years of 2.4 f
not sure what the scientific definition of "first order weather stations" or how that pertains to climate, perhaps you have a citation to the scientific literature
total global ice mass is above the sarellite era mean and increasing
once again, you might clue us in on the scientific literature supporting this claim, and how it relates to climate?
there have been a seven year string of severe winters in large parts of the NH
confusing weather with climate?
global mean temperatures have been flat to cooling over the last fifteen plus years
seems they have been flat, within variation
no individual climate model has even come close to accuracy in projections of all weather phenomenon known as climate
you are looking for an individual model? why? you have a definition of accuracy? please give it and cite the background
the sun was in a highly energetic state for most the mid to late 20th century, the sun is now entering into a period of markedly reduced activity
and what does this have to do with climate? you have repeatedly failed to provide any supporting scientific basis for this contention
the IPCC was founded by a criminal
not a scientific issue...
the modest rise of .8 c over a period of 150 years is not unusual in the climate histiry especially considering we were coming out of a prolonged period known as the Little Ice Age
once again, what is "modest" and what is "usual" and how does the LIA have anything to do with this?
not asking for your opinions, you could do a lot by just citing the scientific literature to support each of you contentions...
very simple, rick, let's start with just one paper out of your "pile of papers" for each contention...
or are they not available for you at this time (which seems your standard excuse for not providing the citations).
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Sep 21, 2014 - 11:50am PT
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The Arctic ice melting season is about to wrap up, I've been watching that closely and will have some long-term (satellite era) graphs once we have September means from NSIDC and PIOMAS. The Cryosphere Today daily ice area index bottomed out well above 2012 but slightly below 2013, and well below any year prior to 2007.
Antarctic ice continues to be a focus for research, I'll write more about that hot topic after the AGU meetings in late fall.
In the meantime, NOAA just updated their global surface temperature index, agreeing that this August was the warmest on record. Below are graphs of August only, and of year-to-day (Jan through Aug) means.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Sep 21, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
Sep 21, 2014 - 11:50am PT
In the meantime, NOAA just updated their global surface temperature index, agreeing that this August was the warmest on record..
There ya go again Larry, telling them verbiage twisting fibs again....
There ya go again Chief, showing off your poor reading comprehension again....
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 12:38pm PT
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Impressive reading compression the chief. Is your problem that you don't understand that the oceans have a surface?
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Sep 21, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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Ya got me their, Chief, you guys sound so much alike.
Now can you tell us if the globe has oceans which also contribute global temps?
Globally, the average land surface temperature was the second highest on record for August behind only 1998 , at 0.99°C (1.78°F) above the 20th century average.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 12:49pm PT
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Really... you missed the critical part of my statement.
No I did not miss it but I really don't understand why you wrote it. I guess it is because you are totally clueless as usual.
People usually care most about the global surface temperature. This temperature both include the land and ocean surfaces. Chiloe pointed out something about that temperature. He was correct about that according to the link you posted.
You on the other hand seems to think that the land surface are more important or that you don't know what a surface is.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 12:50pm PT
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I see that the chief completely changed his post and is now rambling about something else.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 12:59pm PT
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Changing the subject once again... instead of admitting that you didn't now that the oceans are included in the surface temps.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
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But it is of course interesting logic used.
1. The claim was that august 2014 was the warmest on record.
2. The chief said something about semantics and linked to a source that showed that 1. was true but that also said that the land surface temp were higher 1998.
3. People say that the chief can't read.
4. The chief continue with implying that the 2014 record is not really a record due to some bad measurements in 1930 or something like that.
The question is now why did the chief cite a source that said that 2014 were only the second warmest year after 1998 when he now seems to suggest that the 1930 were actually warmer?
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 01:07pm PT
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Maybe you best go back to school and learn how to read.
O sh#t, are you back at trying to argue that global surface temperature do not include the ocean surface?
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
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A new edit to make it really clear that you can't read and understand a simple concept as surface temperature? Impressive.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
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Like I said, it is all a twist of verbiage.
Like everyone above the age of 5 except you have no problem to understand.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 21, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
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Oh, it is by far a "simple concept".
The LAND TEMPS are actual atmospheric readings.
The OCEAN TEMPS are readings of the ocean liquid surface and NOT the actual atmospheric temps directly above them as is the LAND TEMPS.
LOL, are you really sure that is the method used? Did you came up with that "understanding" by yourself or did you read it somewhere?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 21, 2014 - 01:54pm PT
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we've discussed this before, extensively, but then, you don't have a very long memory for these discussions.
you want to give a shot at what "accuracy" is? especially as it pertains to the surface temperature and it's calculation?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Sep 21, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
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This thread is funny, in a train wreck kind of way.
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