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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 17, 2008 - 04:44pm PT
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My experience is different.
Very good editor, smart and funny.
I'm just amused at a woman quickly downshifting the characterization, by a writer with direct experience, of another woman.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Apr 17, 2008 - 05:16pm PT
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Hey Doug or Sean,
Maybe I missed it. Was the final thing done in a single push, bottom to top, or was just the upper half done in a push?
If so when do you intend to go back and do the whole thing in one bite? Maybe someone will beat you to that little plum?....
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SteveW
Trad climber
State of confusion
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Apr 17, 2008 - 05:21pm PT
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Sorry Clint, my bad. But I knew it was something
bad, and staph can be--loss of limbs, the flesh eating
bacteria. I in no means meant to misinform. . .
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 17, 2008 - 05:24pm PT
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The virtual campfire burns on and it grows late.
The ones who came in the beginning, have been drunk around the fire, eaten, sobered up and then drunk again. Who knows if somebody puked on their way to take a leak.
Some others might have returned from a climb to see the fire still burning and saddle up to get warm and share in the tales.
Later still, some guy calls out from the Rock and Ice tent and says keep it down!
Maybe our words get slurred before dawn breaks.
But we are bonded in our experience and community, working out the rough edges together, and seeing a common thread that's stronger than our differences.
I feel good about it all.
Peace
karl
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Tired Trad Tales
Trad climber
southern cal
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Apr 17, 2008 - 05:38pm PT
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a common thread or just another tired trad tale?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Apr 17, 2008 - 05:42pm PT
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I smell a rat....
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scuffy b
climber
up the coast from Woodson
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Apr 17, 2008 - 06:27pm PT
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It's so big of you to dirty yourself enough to provide that
evaluation.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 17, 2008 - 06:40pm PT
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no doubt, need some disrespect in this thread now with the rni thing.
Though admittedly I'd like to take a shot at trying something on that face GU. Probably don't have a prayer, but wth.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Apr 17, 2008 - 06:49pm PT
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yea i win! post # 1553!!!!!!!
send me a prize please...
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scuffy b
climber
up the coast from Woodson
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Apr 17, 2008 - 06:50pm PT
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Did somebody thank you for something?
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 17, 2008 - 07:29pm PT
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Hey Surivor,
Every move of the climb was done by Sean Jones on lead. I'm pretty sure Sarah Watson led most of it too, but I'm not certain about that.
It was redpointed in two stages. The bottom half, up to the bolt ladder, all trad, all pro set on lead.
Then came the weeks of uncertainty about how to proceed, the indecision, agonizing and doubt. I know some of you would like to just skip right over that part, because it doesn't fit your model, your hope to nail us with "just" taking the easy way out.
But pause for a moment of uncertainty in those shoes. They are ti-ight!
For us it was a pretty long, hard moment. Like weeks. There was no easy way out.
During that time, Sarah sprained her ankle carrying a huge load down from our camp. It was pretty bad. Balooned up big and black and blue. She spent a lot of time on Sean's couch. Bored and antsy and, in spite of solicitous attention from some of El Portal's finest, all she could think of was getting back up to her route. Some of us had to sit on her -- figuratively, of course -- pretty hard to keep her from hobbling up the Mist Trail. She went sooner than any medical advice would allow. But of course without insurance, there was a convenient lack of that to hold her back.
So Sarah got to basecamp in one push. Pretty amazing. And the next day, with the ankle heavily taped, she redpointed the upper half of the route with Sean, leading several pitches.
Gritty girl. Hats off to you, Sarah, for that. Awesome effort, under duress, and she pulled it off.
Hard face climbing was bad enough; I can't imagine twisting that ankle into foot jams.
The FA team had no ability, at that point, to do the entire climb in one push. We were all so impressed that Sarah could even finish the climb. Not Sean, not me, not Shawn Reeder the photogrpher -- no one involved even thought about pushing at that point for an all-the-way-through ascent from the ground.
We considered the FA complete.
All due respect to John Bachar and others who want to define this differently so they can underscore their -- not our -- view that this was, somehow, not a FA. You, John, brought hook drilling into the Park. Could be considered a taint from the venerable perspective of drilling on stance. I'm fine with it, it's now accepted, and I consider the Bachar-Yerian one of the great leaps forward in Yosemite climbing. A worthy follow on to your first free ascent of Astroman.
Our leap was a bigger one. So I'm not surprised that we are spending all this time hashing it out. I don't think the two-step FA is the central issue here.
I expect that there will very soon be a second ascent of Growing Up. Second because Sean and Sarah DID the first. And rapidly followed by ascents 3 through 8 -- then we will begin to hear confirmation that this superb terrain was indeed treated with decent respect, and that a proud line resulted. By then, I'm pretty sure that the raves about the climbing itself will begin to drown out all this fuss about how it was created.
From what I saw of the rock up there, I expect Growing Up to take its place as one of the great Yosemite climbs.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Apr 17, 2008 - 07:43pm PT
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It brings an interesting question/debate which has been going on a LONG time in this thread.
I mean, the route's there, no doubt. So, I guess it had an FA. However, FA aside, if I walked up to an established route with a partner, climbed the first half, then got stormed off and went back and rapped in, a few weeks later, to climb the second half.... I would not have climbed the route. I don't really know that I know anyone who would think I had. I certainly wouldn't feel as if I climbed the route.
Just my own thoughts on it, which are not meant to attempt to discredit anything/anyone. Not that they matter.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 17, 2008 - 07:58pm PT
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Doug,
You wrote...
"I don't think the two-step FA is the central issue here."
I think you're right.
What underlies the ethical debates like these is not setting the clock backwards and undoing what has been done. There are no absolute rules in climbing. It is know for it's maverick ways. Growing Up, is an FA, like Piana and Skinner. They worked pitch by pitch, not a continuous ascent ground up onsight. That style is the goal, not the strict measure of every single climb to be done.
However, what is at issue is the precedent setting nature of a prolific climb on a prolific piece of stone using bolts. Can I now, with Growing Up, as my standard, go into HD and top down bolt a climb so long as I can still redpoint it? If I can't redpoint it, then will people stay off it til I can? I'm figuring I get at least a couple weeks. I'm not trying to be a hard ass at all, I've rap bolted stuff, I've ground up stuff. But I can't help but wonder if one precedent leads to another precedent creating a new force of history over time, such that we end up with something like where the classic cracks in Chamonix get bolted so they are safe. (I'm assuming the bolting done top down is done in a sport fashion, and not deliberately run out. If so, that would be a crime, but that's a side issue and speculative on my part.
Thought experiment- Why not set a series of anchors and top rope from the top downward? Downward bound? Just some thoughts. Thx for listening.
Best,
M
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Apr 17, 2008 - 08:21pm PT
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Doug,
Of course I was totally kidding about the scared part. I wouldn't believe that for a minute. Rap bolting is one part of the question. But hasn't it always been considered good form to go back and do the thing in one piece, regardless of the style it was put together?
Did Pianna and Skinner not go back and do the Salathe in total after they worked the parts? Boy, I really do have some things to get used to in this brave new world...
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Sean Jones
climber
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Apr 17, 2008 - 08:26pm PT
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Russ,
I haven't had much time to read the posts lately but caught up a bit today. I noticed you compared Rock & Ice to Rob Halford. I think you meant it as a put down.
I just got the latest issue of R&I today and I have to say it looks soooo good. Best I've seen in a long time. Funny thing is, that today before going to the cookie cliff to burn laps, I sat at the tv first and blasted the latest from Halford into my head. Like church. My church. Halford rules. As far as I'm concerned, Rock &Ice has been kicking ass too.
Anyway, Hello everybody !!! You all seem to be having a pretty good time on this site now. Makes me happy. Even if many hate the style of the route, at least now I can think of how it brought everybody together.
God, my head's getting bigger by the second. I see myself hanging in the middle of the south face. Nialed to a cross, bleeding and dying, like Jesus. Sacraficed my pride. But at least everbody's talking and thinking. My hopes all along.
Just kidding about all that.
Sinse I'm here, I saw a question upthread by ...... can't remember asking about a single push.
We redpointed all the lower piches to the end of the arch then fixed to the ground. came in from above and worked and bolted the upper wall, then jugged the fixed lines to the high point and and redpointed the upper wall.
This was a long involved process. More work than most people could imagine. More thought put into it than any route I've ever done. I do plan to do a 1 day push soon.
If somebody decides to run up and try to beat me. I really don't care. I worked longer and harder than ever to put in a route the way I wanted to see it done. By done I mean finished product. If somebody wants to try and one up me, Who the f#ck cares. Then somebody can go one up them. 1st onsight, 1st solo
1st whatever.
If that's all you ever get out of climbing, then you missed the point anyway. Whoever goes up there for any route, just try and remember to have fun. If you're there for any other reason,why even bother going.
One other thing I would like to answer to is I think Bachar saying something about how the the upper wall was done, having something to do with not being able to climb it. At 5.11 d
do you or anyone else really think I don't have the abillity to climb that. On lead?
Maybe you should do your homework a bit better. The chance of going out on lead for hundreds of feet and blanking out, then realizing I should have gone another way. Ultimately making a huge mistake on the most beautiful wall imaginable, Is not something I was going to do. Even if that meant sacraficing my "PROUD" summit.
As I said before, I hate hearing the word proud attatched to climbing. The most important thing to me was getting it done one clean time. Leaving the top to some futere generation is not something I was about to do.
I had a very clear vision from the beginning that I would leave behind the most climbable route o n the south face. Period. The last thing I would want to see is the top being runout. And 2 people climbing it over the next 50 years.
F#ck !!! I got sucked into this f#cker again and have to run to get my kid.........
Peace,
Sean.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 17, 2008 - 08:41pm PT
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Sean + Doug,
Thanks for the details on the final part of the ascent with Sarah.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Apr 17, 2008 - 08:44pm PT
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Any chance of seeing the topo before the 2000th post?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 17, 2008 - 08:52pm PT
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It won't go to 2000. You guys don't have the stamina nor the stomach to go that far.
Only God can climb The South Face of Half Dome perfectly.
Who here's God?
Not you not me.
Time to to do just your best, good luck.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 17, 2008 - 09:20pm PT
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Thanks, Werner
You blow me away.
Somehow you figured out how to be sarcastic in a kind way(not this post)
Can I have lessons?
And then there's Sean.
Having him post up here after days away is like introducing my new cool friend to my tight circle. Okay, this is a way loose circle -- but don't you love the energy of that guy, just blowing the doors offa things, then blasting out to take 7-year-olds climbing?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 17, 2008 - 09:31pm PT
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All glories to Doug Robinson our kind and gentle teacher.
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