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John M
climber
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Nov 13, 2018 - 01:18pm PT
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Ease up.. just because Travis might not have enough room doesn't negate the idea. Castle Air force base could be reopened and turned into a firefighting center.
I am not expressing an opinion on the validity of this idea. I do believe that we need more air resources.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 13, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
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Somebody, 'simpletons' nit pick examples. And ramp space is a fixed quantity?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Nov 13, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
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That video makes me to never want a plastic car.
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Robb
Social climber
Cat Box
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Nov 13, 2018 - 04:44pm PT
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Since it appears that this will be the new normal for CA, it's ok to throw out ideas. That's how the process begins.
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Clyde
Mountain climber
Boulder
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Nov 13, 2018 - 05:27pm PT
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I wrote the book on the topic. Wasted effort, nobody bothered to read it.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Nov 14, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
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Holy crap. This is just horrifying. I've never been to Paradise, but from the (before) photos, it looked like, well, paradise. Ugh.
BAd
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 14, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
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hey there say, clyde... say, i will look your book up...
*ooops... just did, am back typing... :)
say, GOOD for you... you know... little things like this, really
can help folks...
the trouble is-- getting it out to where FOLKS can see it...
can it be donated to various towns, etc?
thanks for sharing...
say, SCHOOLS maybe, huh??
no one teaches safety, or, fire safety, as much as they should....
*i remember when firemen, used to come to our schools, when we were kids,
now, in these fire areas... would be nice if town-meetings
had open meetings for everyone to come and
get UPDATES on their area...
and-- what is going on...
and-- what maybe can be done...
hmmm, or send out a ' mailed ' flyer, to the homes...
:(
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TLP
climber
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Nov 15, 2018 - 08:45pm PT
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Wow, krahmes, thanks a lot for finding that web site and posting the link. It demonstrates spectacularly what I've said upthread and in other places: once the Camp fire got into Paradise itself, it became almost entirely just an urban fire, burning structures, and those structures igniting other nearby structures, with an unknown number of the ignitions resulting from embers. In the photos on that web site, there's lots and lots of still green vegetation (or with browned leaves from the heat, but not combusted). Obviously trees overhanging the houses that burned are also burned, but in the background, it's largely unburned (some of it scorched) vegetation.
We keep hearing about defensible space, but unless every parcel is a minimum of 2-5 acres, it's impossible to have functional defensible space with other wood framed and wood sheathed buildings close by. Every foothill and mountain town in California needs to rethink this parroted line and start thinking about how we plan and build our communities. The town I live in could easily be just like Paradise next year - or even just next week with an unlucky event. The other route is to eliminate every speck of plant material from the entire community, and I don't think we're ready for that, or to deal with the ecological consequences.
Interestingly, judging from inspection of the Cal Fire structure damage map and examination of satellite imagery, a lot of the multifamily housing in Paradise didn't burn. Not sure how they're building those apartments and townhouses, but for some reason, it's much more fire resistant.
Then there's the fact that these horribly destructive fires are sometimes known to have been started by power lines; likely for the Camp fire too but not yet proven. Sure, it's easy to point fingers at power companies, but we all also need to look in the mirror and ask if we'd cheerfully pay the cost of upgrading the thousands of miles of power lines running all over the whole darn state and maintaining vegetation clearance. There is no free lunch or free protection from disasters.
Overall, with the new climate and fire regime we've now got, it's time for a reality check.
Huge sympathies to everyone affected by loss of property, life, or loved ones. Only by sheer luck am I not among them.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Nov 15, 2018 - 09:26pm PT
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Then there's the fact that these horribly destructive fires are sometimes known to have been started by power lines; likely for the Camp fire too but not yet proven. Sure, it's easy to point fingers at power companies, but we all also need to look in the mirror and ask if we'd cheerfully pay the cost of upgrading the thousands of miles of power lines running all over the whole darn state and maintaining vegetation clearance. There is no free lunch or free protection from disasters.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/business/energy-environment/california-fire-utilities.html
Citigroup estimates that PG&E’s exposure to liability for those fires is $15 billion — and that it could face another $15 billion in claims if it is found responsible for the Camp Fire, a number that could rise because the fire is only a third contained.
30 billion could clear a lot of vegetation.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Nov 15, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
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I wrote the book on the topic. Wasted effort, nobody bothered to read it.
Thanks for posting and writing your book, Clyde! I didn't know about it until now and just bought a copy. Am looking forward to reading this.
On Amazon it has 11 reviews, ALL with 5/5 stars. All those people appreciate it - your effort was not wasted for some folks!
https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Smart-Home-Handbook-Preparing/dp/0762796901/
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 15, 2018 - 10:03pm PT
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hey there, say, mighty hiker...
truly, yes, that is dangerous, -- facing property owners, :(
and, just doing a legitimate job, for helping in
the prevention of future dangers, //that should BE the only
concern//, and not the type that workers must sadly worry about,
in that line of work... :(
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psykokid
Mountain climber
Pasadena
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Nov 16, 2018 - 11:12am PT
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the survey crew got to my inlaws place..
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Nov 16, 2018 - 11:30am PT
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Sure, it's easy to point fingers at power companies, but we all also need to look in the mirror and ask if we'd cheerfully pay the cost of upgrading the thousands of miles of power lines running all over the whole darn state and maintaining vegetation clearance.
I'm all for consumers paying the cost of externalities. Whether it is CO2 related climate change, worker's comp for injured workers, or the occasional fire that kills dozens and destroys thousands of structures.
And outside of the political will required to make it happen, I don't really care whether they are cheerful about it or not.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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Nov 16, 2018 - 11:59am PT
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It would be great to somehow eliminate all possibility of electrical lines causing fires.
But if this were done, wouldn't the same trees & brush eventually be burned by a naturally caused fire?
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John M
climber
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Nov 16, 2018 - 12:02pm PT
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But if this were done, wouldn't the same trees & brush eventually be burned by a naturally caused fire?
Yes.. but perhaps not during a high wind event. The high winds are what make the fire move so fast and make it difficult to impossible to do structure protection.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Nov 16, 2018 - 04:31pm PT
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Timid TopRope and Nita
I'm a bit out of the loop, but I am glad that you two appear to be alright.
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