The Massive Ark on the Moon (very OT, but of high interest)

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TomCochrane

Trad climber

I've lost track...

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:03am PT

Linda is very approachable, but demands on her time are intense. You can email her at earthfiles, but she gets about 4000 a month and can't get through them all. She has a studio in her house in Albuquerque where she gives frequent radio interviews for stations all over the world; when she's not traveling all over the world following up on investigations that she is pursuing. The best approach might be to attend one of her presentations when she comes within reach of your home. Believe me, she'd much rather be doing something 'ordinary' with her life...

TomCochrane

Trad climber

I've lost track...

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:08am PT

My climbing partner astronomer friend at Goddard was working on the Compton GRO. I got sucked into it for a while trying to put an array of fast response radio telescopes on top of the White Mountains above Bishop for observing gamma ray bursts in real time. I got the girl (manager of White Mountain Research Center); but not the observatory (it went to Kit Peak instead)

graniteclimber

Trad climber

Nowhere

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:17am PT

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:17am PT

Rokjox: When the facts are handed to you on a plate with a table of contents, an ingredient list and the affidavits of the Chef, the Maitre'd and the dishwasher, you can take them as gospel. That is, as long as someone handing you the dish SAYS they are gospel.

Independently verifiable facts are just that, there is nothing special or mysterious about them. Ditto peer-reviewed research, zero mystical about that as well. It's actually all quite clear cut and out in the open.

Rokjox: I wonder how well you handle the situation when it's not so carefully cut to conform with your desires and prejudices.

Those "desires and prejudices" are entirely compromised of independently verifiable facts, hard evidence, and reproducible, peer-reviewed research. Anything less is not facts and is not science, but again something else.

Rokjox: Discerning truth from lie, fact from fiction and manipulation from honesty is harder once you leave the library.

If discerning truth from lies and fact from fiction were easy we wouldn't need the scientists, peer-reviewed journals, courts, investigators, journalists, or detectives - it's often hard work - but just making sh#t up to suit your beliefs doesn't count and never will. What you guys are engaging in is belief, innuendo, rumor, fiction, lies, business, and entertainment depending on who is involved and in what capacity.

But be it vaccines, chemtrails, sasquatch, nessie, ufos, or take your pick, what you lack is hard independently verifiable evidence and peer-reviewed research. Nothing presented in any of these threads that I've seen so far rise to that criteria.

TomCochrane: So could there have been off-the-record vehicles manufactured and launched – perhaps…

And again, undetected from what facility?

TomCochrane

Trad climber

I've lost track...

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:33am PT

Yeah, remotely operated telescopes are becoming very popular. My computer directed 6" Meade lets me see in one evening what used to take me all summer to find as a boy in Boise.

TomCochrane

Trad climber

I've lost track...

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:35am PT

Diego Garcia

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:37am PT

Well, my folks lived in Solvang for a long time and had PX privs at Vandenberg and I can tell you for a fact there is no way anyone could ever launch a Saturn from there undetected even if the facilities were there to do it which they never were.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:38am PT

Diego Garcia? Really? An undetected Saturn launch? Shitload of swabbies you'd have to shut up for that not to mention half of Asia.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:39am PT

The launching of a Saturn V or Space Shuttle sized-rocket can be seen and heard for several hundred kilometres. Probably impossible to conceal in the continental US for that reason alone, not forgetting other physical evidence - visible while in transit or on return, radio to and from, and so on. Plus cost, assembly, and on and on. And awful hard to hide anywhere else, although Antarctica might work. But I guess hard evidence isn't important, is it?

Although in this Through the Looking Glass thread, who knows?

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:41am PT

RJ,

WHY are these lies being presented as truth?

read a conservative blog, read fox news. there is a lot of sh#t out there, especially on the net that is wrong or all out lies.

So given that SOME of the crap IS REAL, like crop circles, the UFO's seen over the military bases, and we assume the disabling of the nukes, just as three "for instances"

.

nukes don't just get disabled. they are ENGINEERED. by ENGINEERS.

you saying this is like the blond who can't start her car kicks the tire and it starts running and goes on her merry way thinking something magical happened.

stop making an ASS out yourself man, its embarrassing.

EDIT:

yes WIKI, the authoritative reference for all internet intellectuals and wannabes...

TomCochrane

Trad climber

I've lost track...

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:42am PT

The scientific method is very powerful for examining repeatable reproducible phenomena.

Unfortunately it has some embarrassing limitations in a universe full of unique non-repeatable instances. The scientific response sometimes seems to be that none of those things happened.

And if it didn't happen to me, it didn't happen.

The latest twist seems to be if you didn't get it on video, it didn't happen. And if you did get it on camera...

all pictures are lies!

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Oct 13, 2010 - 01:46am PT

tom,

science's flaws rest mainly within the people performing the work. you are smart enough to know that ( i thought).

you worked on NIF right? multibillion $ project that has never been done beofre, right? based upon science and engineering...

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Oct 13, 2010 - 02:06am PT

Tom, are you really claiming Vandenberg or Diego Garcia had a Saturn launch capability?

TomCochrane

Trad climber

I've lost track...

Oct 13, 2010 - 02:09am PT

I am not trying to argue that Apollo flights past Apollo 17 happened. My best estimate is that they did not. I know where those three Saturn Vs are sitting and can take you to them on the ground.

However we are examining whether it could have happened. I do think there could theoretically have been other Saturns manufactured and launched without public knowledge, whether at Vandenburg (which does have lots of major launches) or Diego Garcia or even sea launched from a carrier. However any Saturn launch requires MAJOR ground support infrastructure and a huge ground support team with specialized expertise. It takes an immense stretch in imagination to think that actually happened, at least that way. I know enough of the players to think it would have leaked out big time. And why build some more of these incredibly expensive birds, when we have at least three more of them sitting around as museum pieces??

On the other hand the size of the black budget and the existence of major secret facilities at least gives room to wonder about it. Another aspect of this is why would you want to, when Atlas or Delta can give you what you need, although perhaps requiring multiple launches. Recognize that the Russian Proton with a Soyuz capsule was originally designed for lunar missions and only later adapted for low-earth-orbit space-stations.

I also have reason to believe that much of what NASA does is just a cover-up.

Linda points out that the government has been running around for years trying to put a finger in all the holes in the leaky dike. I don't see this being one they are concerned about.

Wonder

climber

Oct 13, 2010 - 02:19am PT

((Edit: OOps! Port took his Epicurious post and quote questioning God, and went home.

Yes rokjox Port & granite clocked out @ 800 pm. healyje has the swing shift. And Hawkeye seems to be a team effort. The pissed off guy that always wants you to have a job clocked out and now we have the reasonable guy,

"science's flaws rest mainly within the people performing the work. you are smart enough to know that ( i thought).

you worked on NIF right? multibillion $ project that has never been done beofre, right? based upon science and engineering..."

dots are forming before my eyes...

graniteclimber

Trad climber

Nowhere

Oct 13, 2010 - 02:23am PT

Don't forget the South Pole Base in Antarctica.

This would explain why Werner von Braun and other top NASA management visited Antartica in 1966-1967.

Left to right: Maxime A. Faget (NASA Space Task Group), Dr. Robert Gilruth (director, NASA Manned Spacecraft Center), Werner von Braun (the German rocket scientist), two un-named scientists from the mysterious "Project Deep Freeze", and Dr. Ernst Stuhlinger (another of the German scientists who worked with von Braun and was brought to the USA after the war).

Here is a file photo on the NASA web site: Dr. von Braun, Director of the Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC), at the South Pole Antarctica. January 7, 1967. http://www.nasaimages.org/luna/servlet/detail/nasaNAS~9~9~59149~162994:

Remember that Antarctica was also home to the Nazi UFO bases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lyJKNPU2wE

(snicker)

TomCochrane

Trad climber

I've lost track...

Oct 13, 2010 - 02:26am PT

Yeah, the NIF is built from theoretical knowledge, but it also has the background from the NOVA and other experiments. Remains to be seen if it works. Similarly with the SLAC LCLS.

My uncle was chief engineer for the Hanford plutonium extraction plants...same sort of deal, major infrastructure, never done before, not sure it would even work, based upon Dupont's experience with other chemical extraction plants. It worked.

There are lots of examples along the same line.

What's not along the same line is things we observe that don't fit our knowledge or anything we know how to do.

For example Linda has examined hundreds of mutilations of cattle and many other creatures all over the world where we have no idea how to repeat what can be observed, by any known surgical means; certainly not when she first researched this decades ago, and still true. That demonstrates repeatable instances of something we just don't understand. There is no surgical incision into the cell walls. It appears that the cells just detach from each other at the face of the incision and the outer layer of cells is mildly cauterized. And the animals are usually found containing no blood and none found at the scene.