WoS "confessions"--The whole truth about the "enhancements"

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 141 - 160 of total 434 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Walla Walla, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2009 - 05:50pm PT

Russ, points well taken, and humorous too.

I disagree (of course) with the idea that we could stop to drill any time the "lid was going to pop off." (Hilarious!) We took falls to try what features presented, and when no features presented, we drilled. Simple "ethic."

And the SA team confronts exactly the features we did, and can do just what we did to cope with them, with the advantage of knowing more or less where to go and having a warm, cozy bolt or rivet to shoot for between hooking sections.

Odd to call the SA harder than the FA, but whatever floats your boat. I guess, then, that we wouldn't be able to do the SA, because we were pretty freaked on much of the FA. I don't want to imagine the consequences of having the "lid" actually "pop off." Hehe

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Walla Walla, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2009 - 05:51pm PT

Amazing that we haven't heard of the "stigma" to which you refer, Russ. Could you publicly fill us in on some specific examples and the "stigma" associated with those poor, wayward individuals?

Matt

Trad climber

primordial soup

Sep 22, 2009 - 05:53pm PT

"And the SA team confronts exactly the features we did, and can do just what we did to cope with them, with the advantage of knowing more or less where to go and having a warm, cozy bolt or rivet to shoot for between hooking sections."

hmmmmmmmm

unless they go to chip a flake and hook it and it blows, because you had the option to drill in that case, right? what's more, you even just said, a few posts ago, that you did that several times...

..."too"

this isn't even fun anymore-
T O O easy(.)

drljefe

climber

Old Pueblo, AZ

Sep 22, 2009 - 05:53pm PT

Hey- Why don't you FA guys go do the SA? Talk about badass. Then you could really tell everyone to www.zipit.com

Gene

climber

Sep 22, 2009 - 05:54pm PT

Karl,

A second ascent would answer some questions. But I doubt that the 2nd through 100th would molify the various camps in this never ending saga.

Camps:

#1. Style sucked. Way too long on the wall. Drill fest.
#2. Hardest route on EC. Done by visionaries. Balls of Steel.
#3. Illegal immigrants cross the border. Summons served on rope at base.
#4. Illegal immigrants cross border, teach locals how to climb.
#5. Who cares?
#6. Etc., ad nauseum

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Poofter's Froth, Wyoming

Sep 22, 2009 - 05:55pm PT

Slow typing edit: MB says:
Russ, points well taken, and humorous too.

I disagree (of course) with the idea that we could stop to drill any time the "lid was going to pop off." (Hilarious!) We took falls to try what features presented, and when no features presented, we drilled. Simple "ethic."

And the SA team confronts exactly the features we did, and can do just what we did to cope with them, with the advantage of knowing more or less where to go and having a warm, cozy bolt or rivet to shoot for between hooking sections.

Odd to call the SA harder than the FA, but whatever floats your boat. I guess, then, that we wouldn't be able to do the SA, because we were pretty freaked on much of the FA. I don't want to imagine the consequences of having the "lid" actually "pop off." Hehe

All true.... I can see both sides or the FA SA argument.

I bet you guys would float that thing now..... maybe you guys could go do the second ascent and iPhone us pics and beta the whole way up.

oh and earlier, I think Pete was saying something about getting the FaceLifters up there to crack off a few pitchs.... what is he, Kevorkian???? Not to diss or anything, but the crew I'm seeing at the FaceLift ain't exactly the hardest of the hard when it comes to ElCap climbing..... no offense, but most of that crew might have to Grade VI the Nutcracker.

mojede

Trad climber

Butte, America

Sep 22, 2009 - 05:57pm PT

Matt, no I have never climbed at Rifle, nor do I intend to. Hands on white, feet on black just isn't my style or interest. Using massively travelled sport routes to compare a second ascent of WoS is pointless as well.

Hammer, drill, chisel, iron to pound and pull on is ARTIFICIAL climbing. Props to those bold and brave enough to put themselves into places where free-climbing is not possible, but it still is ARTIFICIAL.

Disagreeing about style/ethics is one thing, but realize that bickering on HOW much metal to use is like 2 grannies bitchin' about each other's needlepoint work. Take it up in person at the retirement home.

Still fun to read about ancient history, though:-)

edit: So who exactly are the lame-ohs bold enough to shite on another's rope and criticize the valley visitors, but too COWARD to publicly 'fess up about it 25 years later?

Matt

Trad climber

primordial soup

Sep 22, 2009 - 05:58pm PT

dr- T O O funny

mojede- my point was not to equate the T O O, but that there is plenty of stuff to CONSIDER using in either situation, and checking it all out kinda defines the climbing as much as "the climbing" itself.

hey- wtf, get some terrorists/ err, i mean immigrants to do the 2nd, then we could roll all these into the "clash" threads and it would be like freakin' armagedon!

which would totally kick ass, right?

DIE THREAD, DIE!!!

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Poofter's Froth, Wyoming

Sep 22, 2009 - 06:03pm PT

Amazing that we haven't heard of the "stigma" to which you refer, Russ. Could you publicly fill us in on some specific examples and the "stigma" associated with those poor, wayward individuals?

Well, not wanting to drag their dicks through the dirt with a very public outing..... we've seen how well that works...

But, the trenching on Arctic Sea, the drilling on Zenyatta, the drilling on Native Son, the drilling on Lunar Eclipse, and actually tons more that I know of are still worn as a Scarlet Letter by the purps, be it El Cap or even free climbs. It still comes up, decades later, and is not looked upon as anything but a black mark on the people that did the deeds. They are diminished, at least in a few of our eyes, and to some degree, has exiled them from their one time clique.

Matt

Trad climber

primordial soup

Sep 22, 2009 - 06:17pm PT

come on now richard-

disagree though we may, i would have until now at least said you seemed honest, and that you had an apparent sense of personal integrity.

you more or less called me a liar.
i proved you wrong with your own words.

at least restore your own gleaming self image and admit to it.

i was right.
you were wrong.
(say it?)

where is your charity now?

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Walla Walla, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2009 - 06:18pm PT

Thanks, Russ. And "float the route...?" I'm in stitches. The only "floating" that could go on would be helium balloons to "float" my expanded waistline (20 too many lbs now). Too many consecutive days sitting at a computer.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Walla Walla, WA

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2009 - 06:23pm PT

Matt, I'll grant you only that the sentence was ambiguous. The grammatical structure could be taken either way.

Philosophical charity is giving your opponent the benefit of the doubt when there is doubt about what he was saying. I think the whole context of what we have ever said about WoS and about other routes makes what I intended to say in that sentence quite clear.

But, just as some nit-pick every tiny detail of WoS, you're going to nit-pick every tiny detail of verbiage to see if there isn't some way to twist clear intentions into something distorted.

For us to call WoS "classic" would be quite outrageous, given these discussions that are nowhere near closure. And I can't imagine ever calling WoS "classic" because I think a "classic" route has to have a LOT more general appeal than WoS will ever have.

Draino

climber

Sep 22, 2009 - 06:46pm PT

These WOS threads are all the same. No wonder you WOS guys get no respect. All whine and endless nitpick going down the drain.

dogtown

Gym climber

JackAssVille, Wyoming

Sep 22, 2009 - 06:47pm PT

Pete wrote,
I really wish Mark and Richard would STFU, though.

And you other wankers who diss the route without having seen it first hand, ought to either do the same, or go bloody climb it. We replaced all the bolts and rivets on the first two [legit] pitches, so there are no excuses. I will take a day off climbing to belay anyone who wants to give it a go. I'll even bring him some beer. Right now at Facelift would be the ideal time. Bring the whole posse up, we'll have beers and put some poor unsuspecting bugger on the sharp end, give him a few Leeper hooks, and send him on his way, with lots of shouts of encouragement from the peanut gallery.

I second that. I'll even put up a 1000 dollars of my own money to the team that can repeat the route with out adding anything to it. At facelift. ( other than you Pete ).

Dogtown.

Matt

Trad climber

primordial soup

Sep 22, 2009 - 06:49pm PT

Matt, I'll grant you only that the sentence was ambiguous. The grammatical structure could be taken either way.

that's only a little bit big of you, sir.

in fact it's not ambiguous, to the contrary it's quite clear. despite whatever you may have meant to say there, what you wrote was "WoS...other classic routes too", and the only 2 ways to interpret that are as 'what you meant to say', and 'not what you meant to say'.

"Philosophical charity is giving your opponent the benefit of the doubt when there is doubt about what he was saying."

regarding philosophical charity, people calling others liars and flamers do not generally get that in direct response to such assertions. specifically in this case, you had even just looked up the instance of your own usage of 'classic' to make that very post, had you not? so you were in fact looking right at the supposedly "ambiguous" grammar to which i was referring, then denying me the very philosophical charity that you went on to berate me for not offering you, when all i had done was to correctly interpret the very words that you had posted...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

i didn't find your words to be "ambiguous" at all.
in fact, the only reason it's (now?) "ambiguous", is that you have since said it was, and claimed that you didn't really mean to say that, so i guess it's some sort of dangling modifier that was only meant to describe a group of climbs including one mentioned in another paragraph, but not the one mentioned immediately before said modifier. right- how ambiguous!

"I think the whole context of what we have ever said about WoS and about other routes makes what I intended to say in that sentence quite clear."
oh ok-
the hardest hooking on el cap-
visionary-
a feat before it's time-
too bold/ too hard/ too committing...

but you would never say "classic"
(how could anyone have not known that you meant "other...too", but not WoS?!?!)

for shame, richard, how about a little 'do unto others' 'n-shit like that? what was your phrase?
oh yeah-
"Sad on you, [Richard]."

edit- ok, you know what? my bad. you are right.
(says so right here: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29949 )

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

sorry, just posting out loud.

Sep 22, 2009 - 06:51pm PT

there ya have it, dtown says 1k to the skilled SA.

twould be bad ass to get it on film, as long as no one bites the high speed dirt ticket.

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Poofter's Froth, Wyoming

Sep 22, 2009 - 06:55pm PT

yeah, but it is all in the semantics Munge.... Dog said "add to it", so chipping or enhancing should be fair game, since it "removes" rock from the route.

Kicka ssss... and whoever does it has until FaceLift to pull it off.... UNHOLY!!!!111666

That 1000 clams is as safe as Fort Knox.