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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Some people are seriously missing the point. The problem with H1N1 is not about *you* or *you* or any one individual. The problem with a *pandemic* is that our health care system is not able to handle everybody (or even a significant fraction) getting sick at once. This is the scenario that the vaccine can prevent. But the more free-riders there are, the less likely it is to work.
I guess it's predictable that everyone seems to only be thinking about themselves, but it's especially sad that anyone would base serious decisions about their own health on random rumors about things that some part of the neuro-science community is rumored to be saying, or that random freakazoids have posted to youtube.
There are real authoritative places to get your information for making these decisions, but these aren't them.
Sad, but it seems like the wingnuts may have really be having an effect on normal people with their "black helicopters and Obama are plotting to take over your brain" BS. What ever happened to "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"? I think that'd be denounced as socialist brainwashing these days.
Educate yourselves, people. With real facts, not random crap from the internet. Come on!
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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No offense, but BS. Do some research. "I heard some colleagues who said these Neuroscientists said..." is not a reliable basis for making medical decisions.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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the latest in Science... recommendation that children and their parents should be vaccinated first...
The Transmissibility and Control of Pandemic Influenza A (H1N1) Virus
Yang Yang 1, Jonathan D. Sugimoto 2, M. Elizabeth Halloran 3, Nicole E. Basta 2, Dennis L. Chao 1, Laura Matrajt 4, Gail Potter 5, Eben Kenah 6, Ira M. Longini Jr.3*
1 Center for Statistics and Quantitative Infectious Diseases, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center and the University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.
2 Center for Statistics and Quantitative Infectious Diseases, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center and the University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.; Department of Epidemiology, School of Public Health, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.
3 Center for Statistics and Quantitative Infectious Diseases, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center and the University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.; Department of Biostatistics, School of Public Health, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.
4 Department of Applied Mathematics, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.
5 Department of Statistics, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.
6 Center for Statistics and Quantitative Infectious Diseases, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center and the University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.; Department of Biostatistics, School of Public Health, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.; Department of Global Health, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.
* To whom correspondence should be addressed.
Ira M. Longini Jr., E-mail: longini@scharp.org
Pandemic influenza A (H1N1) 2009 (pandemic H1N1) is spreading throughout the planet. It has become the dominant strain in the southern hemisphere, where the influenza season is under way. Here, based on reported case clusters in the USA, we estimate the household secondary attack rate for pandemic H1N1 to be 27.3% [95% confidence interval (CI) 12.2% to 50.5%]. From a school outbreak, we estimate a schoolchild infects 2.4 (95% CI: 1.8 to 3.2) other children within the school. We estimate that the basic reproductive number, R0, to range from 1.3 to 1.7 and the generation interval to range from 2.6 to 3.2 days. We use a simulation model to evaluate the effectiveness of vaccination strategies in the USA for Fall 2009. If vaccine were available soon enough, vaccination of children, followed by adults, reaching 70% overall coverage, in addition to high-risk and essential workforce groups, could mitigate a severe epidemic.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Given that this flu strain has a higher mortality on younger people I'd rethink the strategy of getting the flu to build a resistance to it, if I were young. The vaccines are much less dangerous than the flu, that should be a part of your consideration.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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People keep saying "this is a new vaccine," but by that logic, every year's flu vaccine is a "new vaccine." They have to modify it to fit the given flu strain. But the basic idea behind a flu vaccine is not new in any way.
t*r, to answer your question, call me crazy, but I actually trust the CDC and NIH on this one, and they've got plenty of research to show.
They at least seem more reliable than a nutjob medical writer and cribbing numerology from poorly translated bits of the Torah.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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another lie, try another fox:
http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-091007-debunking-swine-flu-myths,0,5570870.story
when they refer to the preservative, thiomersal, this is the mercury they are talking about. Used for a long time in childhood and adult vaccines...in fact you can bet that almost all readers will have gotten this.
Some parents of autistic children adopted thiomersal as an explanation for the increase in reported autism cases and sued vaccine makers; the mercury-autism hypothesis is accepted widely among parents of autistic children, despite scientific studies rejecting it.
It is being phased out of vaccines, not because of safety, but because it is cheaper, than dealing with the hysteria associated with it. (sigh)
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dirtbag
climber
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They're coming to git us!
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miller.545
Sport climber
Overland Park, KS
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http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=swine_flu
I will never take the swine flu vaccine because I already have it; it's called my immune system, and it's badass. I have never gotten sick in my life. My immune system is so strong that I have to get AIDS just to be normal. Your best defense against getting swine flu is to be me. Your second best defense is to have me cough in your face.
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dirtbag
climber
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I'm sure the millions who died from small pox or who were crippled polio wish they had vaccines available.
You guys are funny.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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To be clear, vaccines are supposed to make you sick. They work by provoking an antibody response, and building antibodies that prevent the real thing from being able to get a foothold in your body. In most people, this response is not really noticed.
The H1N1 vaccine comes in two different forms, a live virus form and a killed virus form. The killed virus form is essentially no different in terms of risk than the regualr flu vaccine. If they had had it sooner, it probably would have been included in the regular flu vaccine.
I'd generally say that unless you have specific requirements, there is no reason to take the slightly higher risk live virus vaccine, but I certainly intend to get the regular one.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Ken you say its a lie and in the next sentence you
agree its true, that mercury is in the h1n1 vaccine.
You Liberals are so amusing.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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I'm just now getting over a colf/flu situation...
no need for the swine vac
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Forest
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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//Ken you say its a lie and in the next sentence you
agree its true, that mercury is in the h1n1 vaccine.//
You must be a fox news reporter in training. Except you're much worse at hiding your blatant misrepresentation.
You Liberals are so amusing.
Yeah, all so focused on facts and science and stuff. What a bunch of losers.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Liberals perceive facts as a personal attack.
Astonishing.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Most reasonable people, whether liberal or conservative, resent our time being wasted with BS being represented as facts.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Thimerosal was tested only once, by Eli Lilly on 22 adult patients suffering from meningitis. There was no chance for follow-up to observe long-term effects, as all of the patients in this 'study' died
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2009 - 06:25pm PT
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The fact is there is no amount of Mercury that is good for you. Whether X amount is dangerous or Y amount is safe, is really besides the point. Mercury is an acute poison and any amount should be avoided.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning
It also accumulates in the body.
FDA on Thimerosal:
"FDA is continuing its efforts toward reducing or removing thimerosal from all existing vaccines. Much progress has been made to date. FDA has been actively working with manufacturers, particularly those that manufacture childhood vaccines, to reach the goal of eliminating thimerosal from vaccines, and has been collaborating with other PHS agencies to further evaluate the potential health effects of thimerosal. In this regard, all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age or younger and marketed in the U.S. contain no thimerosal or only trace amounts (1 microgram or less mercury per dose), with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine, which was first recommended by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices in 2004 for routine use in children 6 to 23 months of age."
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/vaccines/QuestionsaboutVaccines/ucm070430.htm
The great thimerosal cover-up: Mercury, vaccines, autism and your child's health
http://www.naturalnews.com/011764.html
"Banned around the world, but not in the United States
That might explain why thimerosal was eliminated in many countries 20 years ago. In 1977, a Russian study found that adults exposed to ethylmercury, the form of mercury in thimerosal, suffered brain damage years later. Studies on thimerosal poisoning also describe tubular necrosis and nervous system injury, including obtundation, coma and death. As a result of these findings, Russia banned thimerosal from children's vaccines in 1980. Denmark, Austria, Japan, Great Britain and all the Scandinavian countries have also banned the preservative.
Eli Lilly stuck to its "scientific" facts, but the truth began slipping between the cracks in 1999. After the number of immunizations rose to 12 to 15 per child, the public finally became privy to the possible dangers of thimerosal. One 1999 study revealed that some infants, due to a genetic or developmental factor, lack the ability to eliminate mercury. Trace amounts of mercury in these infants, when accumulated over several vaccines, could pose a severe health risk. Some vaccines, such as vaccines for hepatitis B, contained as much as 12.5 micrograms of mercury per dose. That's more than 100 times the EPA's upper limit standard when administered to infants.
Hepatitis B vaccines aren't the only immunizations under suspicion. According to Burton Goldberg in Alternative Medicine, scientists are finding stronger and stronger links between thimerosal and neurological damage. One report by Dr. Vijendra Singh of the Department of Pharmacology at the University of Michigan found a higher incidence of measles, mumps and rubella vaccine (MMR) antibodies in autistic children.
The National Vaccine Information Center in Vienna, Virginia, has noted a strong association between the MMR vaccine and autistic features. Reporting similar findings, the Encephalitis Support Group in England claims that children who became autistic after the MMR vaccine started showing autistic symptoms as early as 30 days after vaccination. The diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus vaccine (DPT) given at two, four and six months has triggered autistic symptoms, as well.
When the FDA finally formally released this information in 1999, the news came too little too late for some parents. The damage had already been done."
Why did we ever think we could put Mercury, an acute poison that collects in the body over time, in vaccines as a preservative and not have any health problems? Shear lunacy.
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PRRose
climber
Boulder
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So this horseshit is based on a poll of 15 doctors (probably self-selected anti-vaccine nuts) and an idiotic conspiracy theory involving swine flu, the Illuminati and the Rothchilds...I don't know what to say, except that Klimmer's critical thinking skills are sorely lacking.
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