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dogtown
Gym climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Aug 25, 2009 - 05:51am PT
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R.R. Teton Tea. I like the sound of that.
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Royal Robbins
Trad climber
Modesto, California
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Aug 27, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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Thanks, Guys. Good to hear from you. A description of our Open Book ascent is in Volume 2 ("Fail Falling") and Fin Dome is covered in the first volume. I don't remember anything about the Unchaste. No, I did not make a first ascent in the Ray Lakes area (should that be "Rey", being the headwaters of the Kings River etal?), but Fin Dome got me into climbing. I climbed it long ago on a Boy Scout trip. That's where I was introduced to roped climbing. It's a good idea to use this forum as a testing ground for sections of my tale. Better to get corrections early than late. OK, I'll expound on Chuck Wilts (Help!). More later from the stump.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 27, 2009 - 03:01pm PT
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Hi Royal,
I think that you are correct about the usefulness of the Forum as a testing ground. Some of the best historical topics are in that line, where fuzzy memories are sharpened up with the give and take as everyone tries to find references or remember details. I think that John Long worked out parts of his new book on the Stonemasters on the Forum. The short bit that he included from me was taken from a longer post I made here on the Valley climbing in the 70s.
Please also post comments on the older threads that discuss topics that include you or the time you were in the Valley. The Pratt and Sacherer threads, and the histories of 70s Valley climbing are good examples. We would all love to hear your first hand take on those threads.
Posting pictures is always welcome and not hard once they are in electronic form. Some of the old pictures I have posted have generated more interest than anything I have written. (The image server I use, PhotoBucket, keeps track of how many times an image is opened. I think that is very cool.)
When you are ready to post stories about Chuck Wilts or any other specific topic, start a new thread. The titles are all anyone can see on the forum until they open the thread and start reading. One caveat: you can edit your posts for a short period (two weeks, I think) but you cannot edit thread titles.
Starting more threads also seems to help loosen up the lurkers (folks who read along but don't ever post anything themselves), many of whom are friends and climbing partners who have missing pieces of information.
I would be saddened to find that you have somehow become shy! Heehe.
Good to have you join in.
Best, Roger
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Aug 27, 2009 - 03:31pm PT
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Roger,
Can you (or somebody) post links to some of those older threads mentioned? It would undoubtedly help RR access them readily. I did a quick search with little success.
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hooblie
climber
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Aug 27, 2009 - 03:45pm PT
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you know when your pulling on an old briggs and stratton, you try different throttle settings. then you set the choke and pull it thru a couple more times. scratch your chin and wonder if you goofed up already. when you get a couple signs of life, boy it's kind of exciting
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 27, 2009 - 07:22pm PT
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The forum's ranks are now complete.
Have some Tea, enjoy your seat!
Welcome Royal
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 27, 2009 - 07:40pm PT
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Bad link on the 48 Glen Denny photos - Patagonia
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Aug 29, 2009 - 10:37pm PT
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Hi Royal,
Welcome to the campfire! I think you'll like it here. Kind of the right mix of articulate and silly, of surprising points of view worthy of changing your mind (at least a little), some irrelevant blather, and photos you'd never suspect. Not to mention the puns. It's easy to get the hang of using the Ignore button; just move along.
You may find that a surprising lot of what crops up here grabs you. I have. Stuff I would never have suspected. Of course it's seductive too, knowing things that people want to hear, and flattering to be asked. After a lifetime of writing and getting only a trickle of response, I'm pretty juiced by the feedback around this fire.
And yes, I've tried out ideas here and then moved them on to publication. Did that last week with a reflection on John Bachar. His death affected me more than I ever expected. Like some of the denizens, I polish quite a bit before flying a text, but I find myself equally seduced by the mode of let-it-fly and then scoop another cup from the bucket of frothing tea.
I've found this place to be a huge time sink. For a long while (I've been here ~3 years) that worried me. What am I doing? What about the real work? But in a lot of ways this is the real work. The group memory of how it was. The group rumination on why. And even what it all means. Yeah, even that.
One example is the thread Mighty Hiker mentioned about Chuck. I was honored to be his friend and moved to write something I felt was pretty potent about him. But it was published obscurely in Mountain Gazette and I wanted this lot to read it, so I started a thread. Well the thread took on a life of its own and, like Chuck himself, grew into something wonderful. And like Chuck, irreverence mixed nicely among the homage.
After it grew legs, Pat Ament suggested it should become a book. But by then it already was the definitive archive on Chuck. And so it will remain, as long as digits shall live. Whether anyone ever puts it between covers, or not. For me, that became a lesson on the emerging power of the Internet. This whole place, this sometimes unruly campfire -- it all is.
Anyway, not to blather onward, just a big welcome!
Doug Robinson
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 29, 2009 - 11:25pm PT
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You mentioned Bill Briggs.
Bill has been battling Lymphoma for years now.
The reception after Woody's memorial was at his house near the south entrance to JTree. there are two houses on that road that fly a New Mexico flag when the occupants are present and accepting guests. Bills is on the left quite close to the park entrance.
If he's there this fall, I'm sure a visit from any of the old school would be appreciated.
PM me if you want contact information.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 30, 2009 - 12:53pm PT
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Hey Doug,
Your post is the best summary I have seen of the 'old climbers' view of the benefit of the Forum. Thanks.
Two threads which I think showed off the immediacy and power of the Forum are 'Wings of Steel' and 'Growing Up.' Unlike the 'Pratt' or 'Sacherer' threads, both threads are a complete mess for a casual reader (an abridged version would be great but the topics may be too obscure to warrant the effort). The mix of comments and discussions from the principals involved would not have been possible in any other direct way—too many people, spread out in different parts of the country, and from different times--short of an exhaustive investigative reporting. The back and forth, especially for 'Growing Up', as climbers rethought their positions going in and out of day and night and sober to loose lipped created a common understanding and some common ground (and lots of laughter) for both an old and a new controversial climb. I am reminded of the articles and letters to Summit in the late 60s as climbers took aim at each other: those exchanges don't hold a candle to what can be done on the Forum.
That said, the Forum takes some getting used to. It is like going to a camp fire in which you can talk to your friends but are in ear shot of conversations at adjoining campfires that you don't want to be part of. Active compartmentalization is a required skill.
Best, Roger
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 30, 2009 - 01:52pm PT
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I still think Russ' synopsis of the "Growing Up" thread is best...
SFHD rap bolted by a naked talus runner and a pro climber, who also does construction to feed his kids. Route is probably great, but since style is still important to many, FA guys are getting an earful. Other guys are loving the new way to do giant walls safely, and are coming to the defense of the FA guys. Many old crustys in the fray. Lots of bad spelling. Young guys poking old guys with sharpened stick clips.... old guys peeing on ball-less young guys..... Since opinions are like bungholes, even 5.4 leaders from the Gunks are lipping up along with the hardest of the hard from every era. No end in sight.
it was a early 1000's post of a thread that went on for another 1000 posts...
Welcome Royal Robbins, I hope you enjoy the campfire, you'll find it wise to wander off to bed early from time to time, and at other times, as Doug alluded to, be upset that you are the last one howling at the moon...
It is a special place, sorta like the New Yorker observed
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Aug 30, 2009 - 01:57pm PT
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Thanks, Roger.
Nicely put and good insight. We have come to expect no less of you.
I'm still impressed by what happened on the 'Growing Up' thread. You're right, thanks to this medium it became something well beyond the reach of even good investigative journalism or live campfire. The filtering out you mentioned was of course necessary (bloody my knuckles? I think not.). And the weeks it took to run its course actually encouraged thoughtful as well as hot-off-the-cuff responses.
Not to hijack Royal's thread here, but I worked hard to write a piece about Growing Up for the AAJ that was informed and heavily influenced by that thread. Maybe I should post it up. Or not. Let sleeping dogs (sic) lie, and all that. I sure wish it would get climbed again so some fresh perspective could emerge.
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Tamara Robbins
climber
CA
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I have an original copy of a songbook that many may remember... unfortunately the cover is gone so I can't name it! Anyhow, I remember the family belting them out on our numerous road trips! Particularly "Gory Gory" about a climbing fall, "Abdullah Bulbul AMir", "Streets of Laredo".... Dad may be able to recount the book's origin and name?
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Ed, that was a well spoken of a piece on some chaotic threads as I've ever read.
Doug, it would be a good thing to read those words, perhaps a new thread? Did Growing Up ever get a second ascent after all that hot air?
BTW, Largo giving a preproduction read of Royals book 5 stars means I'm getting it for sure. At least the first one:-)
Royal, the ethics debate has fragmented even more since you stopped climbing. I think being either the greatest climber, or certainly one of them anyway, of your era, gave you incredible strength and power to your well crafted logical words on the issue of clean climbing and bolting that few have possessed since.
Regards to all
Bill
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Bill,
Royal hasn't "stopped" climbing. He just started boating, writing, etc. There are several folks that can attest to him still climbing.
cheers,
M
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Royal Robbins
Trad climber
Modesto, California
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Tamara mentioned singing aloud on our way to climbs and things like that. We did. We loved music. That book of songs she refers to is "Song Fest", the (irreplaceable) IOCA (Intercollegiate Outing Club Association)song book. It has a song about a climbing accident ("Gory, Gory, What a Hell of a Way to Die") It begins "Will it go around the chockstone, cried the belayer, looking up". And it has another about the battle between Abdullah Bulbal Amir and Ivan Skavinsky Skivar and a sad one about the cowboy dying in the Streets of Laredo. Tam memorized much of those. Those are the ones we sang most often, but there are many others in Song Fest.
Thanks, Doug. It's great to see you and other friends as part of this. I will be back. (This is enjoyable!) Thanks to whomever for posting the links. I'll look them up.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2009 - 08:59pm PT
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Hmmm. Perhaps such songbooks were common to climbing and mountaineering clubs then, especially those that were affiliated with educational institutions. Perhaps an outgrowth from scouting or something. The Varsity Outdoor Club at UBC had a songbook which it regularly used, although I don't recall anyone singing on the way to climbs.
Royal: I'll post some more links to interesting threads when I get a chance. Once you start poking around, you'll find that many good threads themselves have embedded links to other good stuff. We met two years ago at the FaceLift, where I took this photo of you, Tom and John Stannard.
Anders
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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So with a handy search tip from another thread (thanks cintune!), I was able to find the "Sorting out late 70's Valley climbing" thread that Roger had started a year ago:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=655407
DR,
A like your thoughts on the forum. The internet, for better and sometimes for worse, has definitely changed the nature of the climbing community.
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