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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Vulva, Wyoming
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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Offwidth ratings are like soul.... "If I have to explain it to you, you won't understand"
This man understands it:
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:21pm PT
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but if we ask to describe a wide route's characteristics it might take all night with proper fuel.
:)
regret not coming down. hope stories will continue to trickle up north. I will bring my Josh bible for reference and choir hymn singing about porcine sending.
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scuffy b
climber
Frigate Matilda
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:23pm PT
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Hey t*r,
I'm going to try to give you a straight answer on this.
It's going to take some time, but I'll put it right here
later with an edit.
EDIT: t*r, everything after this is the edit
Many of us learned some forms of face climbing first.
Our first experience with jam cracks was like hearing a foreign language. Remember
trying to hang off a hand jam before you knew how? Thin cracks were probably easiest
to relate to the face climbing experience. Hand cracks probably came next, in terms of
relating them to previous experience and being able to come to grips with the ratings.
Chimneys are thrown into the mix fairly early for many folks, and we progress to fist
jams and then off width. The OW cracks require some specialized techniques, but you
learn them, and you learn to climb those cracks, and you start relating them to other
climbs, in terms of ratings.
This is “old school” style of off width, could be 5.8 and up. This one is quite steep. Probably 5.12
This is so steep that “conventional” technique won’t work. The climber has to hang off
foot jams/heel-toe and use stacking combinations with the hands to shuffle the feet and
legs. This kind of climbing is always hard. Nobody is going to claim something like this
is easier than 5.11.
This is just a bit of progression from the last one in terms of weirdness. The pivot into
the part of this climb that is like a squeeze chimney is just another specialized type of
move which must be learned (a certain level of fitness is required for these, obviously).
Again, nobody is going to claim this is easy.
Those posts from Russ and Melissa: there’s a lot of truth in those.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Vulva, Wyoming
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
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quickly and just for you T*R:
5.7 chimney, easy and usually no pro. climbs like 5.4
5.8+ OW, could be up to 11a
5.9 squeeze, about 11c
10a OW, usually 10a
10c OW, could be up to 12a
10d OW, never harder than 11d
5.11A OW, just techniquie, maybe like 3 moves of 5.8+
5.11+ OW, really only 5.9 fist but usually after a string of 11b rings
5.12 OW, a pure circus move, but the move might be in the 5.17 range
5.13 OW, said to not exist. Probably like many 5.8+ moves in a row.
I would print this out and carry it in your purse just in case it comes up out in the real world.
Hope this helps.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Vulva, Wyoming
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:33pm PT
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ummm.... sadly t*r, that is a straight answer. I told you that you would not understand.
t*r edit: ok... pull your post..... here is a tissue.....
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:42pm PT
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In a way, I think so was Russ.
Here's my go as far as I can...
5.6 or less is prolly 50% face climbable or can be done by direct grovelling in the absence of any wide technique. May still feel really hard.
5.7 is probably a knee chimney or low enough angle that you could stand there for an eternity although upward progress might be grueling and make you bleed. This is the grade where those new to the style might get denied access in spite of a willingness to thrash.
5.8 A squeeze or a 5.7 knee chimney that necks down and makes you wiggle out of it. Foot-backs (one of the biggest, least secure, least protected, but not technically heinous types) seem to get graded 5.8.
5.9 Moments of incredible struggle punctuated with restful situations like knee chimney areas or stances. Often you'll have to climb over a roof or something after struggling up the wide crack, but the roof itself won't be wide. For ow, a lot of your body will probably fit inside of it or it won't be too steep.
5.10 Could be anything. The old dads often did these first and they were great wide crack climbers that only counted to 10 where climbing was concerned. Or it might be easier than a bad old dad 5.9. You never know.
5.11 Either really, really sustained ow or somewhere between the size of your knee and your fist for more than a move.
5.12 (from what I can see) Involves overhangs and roofs.
5.13 Also involves mostly only overhangs and roofs.
One man's 5.9 fist solo is another woman'ss 5.11 ow nightmare. And one gal's can't-quite-fit is another guys butt jam rest.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:49pm PT
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my observation is that almost all 5.11 OW probs are overhanging...
counter examples?
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:51pm PT
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Big Baby, Big Guy
I haven't seen many 5.11's in Yosemite. I'm sure there's a factoring together of length and steepness in coming up with the actual difficulty, however that may or may not be reflected in the grade.
The Monster ow (only seen in pics) doesn't seem to overhang...hard for sustained nature? Necking problem?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:54pm PT
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ok I didn't take IC into account on account of never having climbed there...
...gotta rectify that situation
but it is really 5.11 OW or just the Eldo Prancer™™™™™™™™™™ rating?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:57pm PT
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Did anyone make it up that throbbing thing?
That thing looks cool ....
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Apr 20, 2009 - 08:58pm PT
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Endurance is always easier than pure difficulty for me, but I'm too unseasoned at the grade to spray more than theory here.
You guys should find another widey and FA it in honor of Werner's post and call it "That Throbbing Thing".
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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Apr 20, 2009 - 09:01pm PT
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The confidence level of a $2 bet is stunning!
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scuffy b
climber
Frigate Matilda
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Apr 20, 2009 - 09:14pm PT
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Werner,
none of our pathetic crew is making it up that Throbbing thing.
It's really cool, all right.
It can be climbed as a lieback, obviously, and I'm sure it's
been done that way, no idea how many people have done it. Most
likely the FA was done as lieback (Alan Nelson).
As an armbar problem, I think it's fantastic. The problem is that I'm about 30 years behind, in terms of accomplishment.
Dale would have walked it in the old days.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 20, 2009 - 09:18pm PT
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Thanks scuffy
This is one of the better threads in along time. It started out with a bunch of clean rugby shirts standing around but then got into the low down and dirty business fast.
Bravo guys and gals ....
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 20, 2009 - 09:24pm PT
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I'm sure I'm over generalizing a few observations...
I haven't been on that many 5.11 OW myself and I'm not changing my license plate anytime soon...
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Apr 20, 2009 - 09:46pm PT
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Pamela didn't have her car there, so we have never seen her lic plate rebus...
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justthemaid
climber
Los Angeles
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Apr 20, 2009 - 09:49pm PT
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In a side news flash...
These guys got me scheming for large gear. The ex has a 4.5 camalot. I asked to "borrow" it. He foolishly handed it over. He owes me lots of money. There's no way in hell he's getting it back.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Apr 20, 2009 - 10:08pm PT
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'Always climb the Wide with Pride™' Skip!
This thread has taken some interesting turns, though I'm not sure what beans I am supposed to spell into my Kingsbury after a beer...I've got a few more photos to thaw out.
Good to meet you too, Joe, also great to run into Larry Scritchfield (after all these years) at the same venue. Hi, again Larry, if you're out there.
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Larry
Trad climber
Bisbee
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Apr 21, 2009 - 07:55pm PT
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It was great to run into old Wyoming friends - Jay, Mike and Steve - and meet new people as well. Don and I were having a little wide fest of our own. We didn't know about yours.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Apr 21, 2009 - 09:11pm PT
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Synchronicity...
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