Atheism Appreciation Thread

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jstan

climber

Mar 12, 2009 - 05:02pm PT

This is the aspect of Evolutionary Psychology that really grabbed my attention.

Its thesis is that without consciously sensing what they are doing groups of people adopt certain modes of behavior because those behaviors offer advantages. The scientific process based upon this is to look at particular behaviors and then to look back into history to find the group of people involved in its adoption. Now here is the scientific confirming test. If that group of people did this then there should be other advantageous behaviors that group would have promulgated.

If you can actually find several of these other associated behaviors your thesis has begun to gain substance. Amazing! An actual scientific process in psychology.

There are two other attention grabbers.

Some of these behaviors that were advantageous to a group long ago may not be so today. In that case you will find this behavior is no longer expressed. They have a name for this which I don't recall. I call it a remnant behavior.

Secondly, we are now able to define "abnormal psychology!" If you can not find a group which was involved in the adoption of a particular behavior and the expression of the behavior is obviously not in the self-interest of the individual expressing it, then you have an abnormal psychology. Be careful, however, not to attach pejorative legal or judgmental associations with the use here of the word "abnormal." They mean only what the English language intends.

I will be so foolhardy as to attempt to contribute something myself. What is the single most important component allowing groups quickly to adopt and actually to enforce the expression of one of these approved behaviors? If you look back at the practice of religions that call the faithful together every day to practice behaviors you see this element is communication.

Today our communication is more immediate and all enveloping than it has ever been. So our thesis might be that we should be seeing behavior modified and adopted much more widely and quickly than ever before. Public disapproval of the actions of others will be faster and sharper than ever before. And our economic cycles will be more severe and more abrupt as well as the adoption of "approved" financial practices that are more highly detrimental to those not a member of the group.

I don't believe one has to be an "elite" to see this.

Indeed, with a little introspection we can even discern Rush Limbaugh's role in the world.

I bring up these last two hypotheses only because they are at the sharp edge of evolutionary psychology in our present world.

Jaybro

Social climber

wuz real!

Mar 12, 2009 - 05:04pm PT

Then why don't climbers, en masse switch to offwidth?

jstan

climber

Mar 12, 2009 - 05:14pm PT

Jaybro:
Because you have yet to get Rush working on that adaptation.

pip the dog

Mountain climber

planet dogboy

Mar 12, 2009 - 05:19pm PT

Jaybro,
> Then why don't climbers, en masse switch to offwidth?

because the guy on the left isn't sid vicious -- it's me after i tried to do 'Harpoon' wearing just a t-shirt. next time it will be kevlar body armor. wait a second -- there will never be a next time! sheesh...

()

^,,^

pip the dog

Mountain climber

planet dogboy

Mar 12, 2009 - 05:38pm PT

jstan,

a thought provoking read.

but i wonder if the staggering increase in communication of late isn't in itself destroying communication.

i'm thinking _way_ BITD when 4 or 5 cro-magnons leaned in close around a fire pit the size of a coffee can, well into the night. they actually listened to each other. and they both had and took the time to actually think of what they really wanted to say.

today, i have so much email, voicemail, twitter, tex-mexsgs, CNN, BBC, and NPR 'communication' that i for one rarely have a clue what so much as the topic sentence is.

have you noticed how in recent months, most all of the glossy foreheads spouting the tv news (cable, local, all of them) are endlessly smirking and doing head rolls and saying stuff like "this kid killed 16 people -- what a jerk! what was he thinking? i think that is really insane. what is the world coming to?" and the like.

i myself don't need some swimsuit model to tell me when to be upset or dismayed. just tell me the basic facts -- i'll figure out whether i need to punch a hole in the drywall or not, thank you very much.

i present this as an example of bipeds grasping for some bit of actual communication in a world of 24/7 endless "communication."
~~~

that and no one will ever talk me into joining the off-width phalange (again). not even the mighty Jaybro.

though i do enjoy sitting on my ever expanding ass and watching them beat the living sh!t out of themselves. now _that's_ entertainment.

Go Dogs, Go! (hee hee)

^,,^

JuanDeFuca

Big Wall climber

Stoney Point

Mar 12, 2009 - 06:09pm PT

May I be a guard for all those who are protector-less,
A guide for those who journey on the road,
For those who wish to go across the water,
May I be a boat, a raft, a bridge.

For all those ailing in the world,
Until their every sickness has been healed,
May I myself become for them
The doctor, nurse, the medicine itself.

Bad Climber

climber

Mar 12, 2009 - 06:32pm PT

Werner: You either need to smoke a lot less or a lot more. Not sure which.

Peace.

Bad C.

jstan

climber

Mar 12, 2009 - 07:01pm PT

In the field of psychology opinion has, I think, stayed extremely diverse for an unusually long time. Perhaps the new developments will change things.

Long ago when the Rohrshak test was still being saluted, I took the test for giggles. In each case I posed the question why it was the image included a mirror plane.

I expected to hear this was so because all natural creatures possess mirror planes. Had I gotten the answer I was prepared to ask why they thought looking at pseudo-natural creatures would be a test of psychological state.

I would have been fascinated to hear how our psychological state is reflected in our relationships with natural creatures. If I had then volunteered I wanted to shoot one of them from a helicopter, I believe that would have given a definite indication of my state. Unfortunately I harboured no latent hostility against any of them.

I was never even asked what a mirror plane was.

Alas. Can't win em all.

poop*ghost

Trad climber

Denver, CO

Mar 12, 2009 - 07:32pm PT

Just dropping by to say: APPRECIATE YOUR ATHEIST!

Keep in mind, you don't have to understand one another - just tolerate them.

GOclimb

Trad climber

Boston, MA

Mar 13, 2009 - 10:52am PT

>>Pip wrote: Oh no! Disaster! We must prevent that merger at all costs.

Oops! Perhaps I should clarify.

Darwin came along when biology and geology were far enough advanced that the revelation of Evolution was an inevitability. All the pieces were laid out, they just needed someone to put them together.

Freud, on the other hand, had next to nothing to work with. He came along at a time when any bad behaviour was simply seen as a more or less immutable defect of character. I agree - I think Freud got most of the specifics wrong, and I think his methods of determining correct from incorrect was totally unscientific. But what he accomplished was the very beginning of of a new branch of science. The invention of a new language.

GO

GOclimb

Trad climber

Boston, MA

Mar 13, 2009 - 11:01am PT

JStan, are you familiar with the concept of the meme? It's fascinating, and adds an entire dimension to behavior.

Memes, in humans, can have a much stronger role in predicting behavior than genes. And like genes, they are self replicating.

So in order to have a successfully predictive science, you must include both genetics and "memetics", if I may coin a phrase. Otherwise your results will be all over the map.

GO

jstan

climber

Mar 13, 2009 - 12:43pm PT

I was not but now I know a little more. Would you suppose OW crack climbing is a meme? Definitely a culture having easily identifiable components.

perswig

climber

Mar 13, 2009 - 12:44pm PT

"Anyone who seeks God without embracing Love is barking up the wrong tree."

Here's hoping we can embrace love without necessarily seeking (a) God. I'm thinking they're not mutually inclusive.

Dale

pip the dog

Mountain climber

planet dogboy

Mar 13, 2009 - 09:52pm PT

GO,
> But what he [Freud] accomplished was the very beginning of
> a new branch of science. The invention of a new language.

While i still disagree on that first sentence, we are surely of one mind on the second.

The neurobiologists abandoned Freud's "science" long ago; and just roll their eyes at so much as the mention of his name.

That said, Freud continues to fascinate the absolute frick out of lit-crit crowd -- and for good reason. To my small eye, Freud accomplished what Joyce tried but ultimately failed to do in Finnegans Wake -- he invented both a new narrative and a new language. And that's one hell of a trick.

Oh, the hours i burned reading the both of them. At this point I'd only recommend either (FW or core Freud) to someone who is at least 80 years old and has already read most everything else. For the rest and most of us, there is _so_ much to read that is a better use of our time.

Right now I am re-reading Fuentes (Aura) and García Márquez (100 Years Of Solitude). Both are magnificent -- and reading both at once makes it all the more lunatic and delicious. I am increasingly certain that the latter is the best novel written in the 20th century.

Too bad my spanish is at present limited to "where is the men's room?" "how much tequila can i get for this wad of bills?" and "i didn't know she was your little sister, i'll be leaving now, and forever."

I'm working on this (though to no discernable end, at least to date)

^,,^

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Mar 15, 2009 - 01:31pm PT

Being an Atheist has been a great freeing experience.

Yeah, no sh#t, you can do anything you want and be free from guilt or karma.

Nice! Keep telling yourself that.

dirtbag

climber

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2009 - 01:48pm PT

You're so clueless.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Mar 15, 2009 - 01:59pm PT

I know, db, I know.

paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Mar 15, 2009 - 03:32pm PT

Have to agree with PTD's analysis of Freud (no pun). Freud still resonates in our understanding of human thought processes; his notions of the subconscious as a revelation of what our desires really consist of changed the way writers and artists perceived their work throughout the 20th c.

I would disagree with the conclusion that "Finnegans Wake" is a failure though. If there is a greatest book in the modernist tradition it would have to be "Wake". Unfortunately it's a hard read, though well worth the effort. Understanding begins in realizing the title is a command.