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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Feb 16, 2009 - 07:50pm PT
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I think I'll make a sock puppet now...
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Feb 16, 2009 - 07:52pm PT
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I like Buddhists.
They keep quiet about it.
Christians act like they get extra points for every upsell they make.
Just like car salesmen.
I don't trust either of them.
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andanother
climber
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Feb 16, 2009 - 08:04pm PT
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My religion is the right religion because my religion SAYS it's the right religion. Can't argue with that!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 16, 2009 - 08:20pm PT
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IS THIS THREAD DONE YET?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Feb 16, 2009 - 08:35pm PT
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Apostle wrote
"..You know if you read what I said about the masonic religion in comparison with Christianity it is what GOD warns us about. "Thou shall have no other gods before me...."
Just sayin' Apostle, that it seems you are taking the Bible and turning it into a graven image to worship. Christians never had the Bible for hundreds of years, and never had a copy they could read by most people for over a thousand. There are 5000 manuscripts of the Bible and None are identical. Some differences are kinda large. The story of Jesus stopping the stoning of the adulteress didn't make it into the main text of any Bible until around 1200.
You are following dogma that is just today's fundamentalist dogma, heavily influenced by Paul. There is just as much evidence that Paul "met" Jesus as there is that Joseph Smith did, or Jim Jones for that matter. How come the Prince of Peace gave the keys to Peter and never mentioned his main teacher would come later?
Even those who are inspired by God, as you are too, have trouble translating the pure light into rules for daily life. At least Jesus was physically present to teach his own disciples (Paul was not one) and even they screwed up constantly! There is evidence right in the Bible that there were disagreements between Jesus Direct disciples and Paul.
Did you know that Jesus was NEVER called Jesus by his followers (It's something like Yeshua in Hebrew and Aramaic) ? NEVER celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday? and that there are direct contradictions in the Gospels regarding what day Jesus died on and where his parents went after he was born. Unresolvable contradictions. You claim the Gospels were written by eyewitnesses to the crucifixion, but not even religious scholars of the Gospels believe that. The names of the books were added later.
Still, I have no doubt that the Love of God exists in your heart and certainly don't wish you to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Embrace the Love radically as Jesus demonstrated.
The evidence for this doctrine of an eternal Hell that people who do not specifically cite Jesus as savior go to....It is pretty scant in the Bible and there is just as much to say you shouldn't be eating shellfish or pork. Do you? You pick and choose your battles rationalized by popular religious culture. You aren't bold enough to question dogma based on the inspiration of your spiritual heart, just as the Pharisees didn't question back when Jesus railed on them for being too "By the Book, not by the heart"
It would be interesting if God could just delegate you to torture one child for the rest of its life for refusal to believe what you tell her happened 2000 years ago. Then maybe you'd understand what a grievous blasphemy and insult to the Divine these brimstone doctrines you preach are.
If you have a 3 year old child, that kid understands you and your adult life and motives better than you could understand the infinite creator, and whatever you told that kid, via the prophecy to the smartest 5 year old kid you could find, would still be a pretty dim approximation of actual truth.
Trust the love and let it expand further in you. Again, humans had a very different understanding 2000 years ago.
It's still true that if you call Jesus into your heart sincerely, that the Spirit of God embodied by Jesus will certainly come. Amazingly, it works if you call for Shiva or Allah or Jehovah. Why? because Intent is everything. If your 3 year old calls out for you by any name, you come. Jesus is the only way, just as we need water to survive. Some call it Pani, Aqua, H20, and it even works in Beer.
PEace
Karl
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apostle
Trad climber
heaven
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2009 - 10:23pm PT
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Karl I am clearly sharing the word of GOD with you all and what He has instore for us. I am thankful to the ancient scribes and GOD ,that preserved the sacred scriptures for the hundreds of years. What I do know is that virtually everything that you need to know concerning GOD is in the Bible. If you get to know GOD'S word and understand it clearly, you can know the will of GOD. "Then I would not be ashamned,When I look into all your commandments. I will praise You with uprightness of heart,When I learn Your righteous judgements. How can a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed according to Your word."-Psalms 119:6,7,9
When you commune with GOD and learn what pleases HIM. The Bible says, "Let the peace of GOD rule in your hearts" -
Colossians 3:15
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways ackknowledge Him, And HE shall direct your paths." Proverbs 3:5,6
"And because the lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold." Matthew 24:9
Just see the signs of the times. We are always to be ready for our LORD'S return, but nobody knows the day and hour when that will be.
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." Matthew 24:14
So the Bible is a very complex subject. People study it try to show that the text is incorrect a hoax, just a history story and saying the Bible is a lie. Just know this when the day comes and CHRIST JESUS returns to take his belivers into the kingdom. All the non-belivers that had there chance and deciding to reject the word of GOD and claiming JESUS was a liar...Then forget it!
"They will be judged guilty by the LORD JESUS CHRIST,HIMSELF." Revalations 20:11-15 The Bible says that the lost shall be cast into the lake of fire...
When you meet HIM face to face, will HE be your SAVIOUR?- or your JUDGE?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Feb 16, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
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You really got them scrambling this time Jody! Well done!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 16, 2009 - 10:40pm PT
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I try to begin each day with an early quiet time. I use a book containing 365 short meditations along with the bible. Opened it today and laughed. It was about living in the light of Jesus return. I call these things in my life holy coincidences.
Basically what it said, "Live life with Eternity's Values in View."
"And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming." I John 2:28
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 16, 2009 - 10:48pm PT
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apostle, you say "in some respects the bible could be complex."
However, the bottom line if you read the whole thing alot is Jesus cares about all and makes it simple so no one will miss him. No matter what your IQ (thankfully for Lynnie)
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Feb 16, 2009 - 10:52pm PT
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hey there lynne, say......
Why do you speak like a normal person when Jebus is in the room, and like a 14 year old thug with a crooked hat when Jebus is out of the room?
I quote: Mussys' 3:12- And Mussy said, use Ebonics as a recipe for sin, but speak my tongue with truth and purity, as it was intended. Seek proper diction and know it well, for it is a reflection of upbringing and caste. Go forth now into the world, and retard the urge to be "a bringer of children from the womb fornicator" whose oration is painful sin upon the ears of all humanity.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 16, 2009 - 11:06pm PT
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I really don't know Mussey. I just get to a point when I need some fun in my day. The Yo's and whatevah help Lynnie have fun.
Forum has gotten laugh impaired. I've been on here @ a year and I know the year quite well. It saved mi. So YO I can tell yo it ain't been laughin' late. The laugh meter tells alllll. :D
And Yo, Hey to Sooz ! You special gal. Seriously. Lynnie
EDIT: Glad to have you back, I am Sir to my Friends. Taco is totally not there with out Yo. Like I said only been here a year, but I gotta sense of zis place.....yeah yo dude. ok, now we do the knuckle to knuckle ....side to side...knuckle to knuckle. See how much the yo gal be learnin? Gotta laugh.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Feb 16, 2009 - 11:12pm PT
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Well.... as long as you are having fun, Jesus forgives yo.
Edit: I'm not really "back". Only you and Werner can see me. Really, I'm stuck here at the computer doing a giant backlog of work, and after a few hours I glaze over... and need a diversion. Like yelling "WOLF" behind Rox or something. Soon it will end.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 16, 2009 - 11:17pm PT
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Lol, no forgiveness needed .... he encouraged me to be here for laughs and healing. Preciate you Dude. You and Sooz have been part of this crazy gal's getting out of the pain and loss and into living again :D Danke Lynnie
Edit: hear yo edit. I am actually working hard too for first in long time....according to the work force. DonnnnworktohardthodudeitkillsthespiritsosaidDanandhelaughedandlikedyobro. Secret code from the dvd, is it Christmas Story...he tried to shoot his eye out with the red ryder beebee rifle ?!?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Feb 16, 2009 - 11:18pm PT
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Lynne, who are you talking to?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 16, 2009 - 11:23pm PT
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Yo ...bwahahaha
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 16, 2009 - 11:28pm PT
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In fact, yo just made an appearance over on the Steve Grossman thread.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 16, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
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So, I'm guessing no one is going to answer my questions - maybe Jesus will when he hits town....
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 16, 2009 - 11:33pm PT
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healyje, when you write so Lynnie can comprehend. : DD
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Rudder
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Feb 16, 2009 - 11:46pm PT
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apostle wrote: ""Karl I am clearly sharing the word of GOD with you all...""
“Listen! I took the case of children only to make my case clearer. Of the other tears of humanity with which the earth is soaked from its crust to its centre, I will say nothing. I have narrowed my subject on purpose. I am a bug, and I recognize in all humility that I cannot understand why the world is arranged as it is. Men are themselves to blame, I suppose; they were given paradise, they wanted freedom, and stole fire from heaven, though they knew they would become unhappy, so there is no need to pity them. With my pitiful, earthly, Euclidian understanding, all I know is that there is suffering and that there are none guilty; that cause follows effect, simply and directly; that everything flows and finds its level—but that’s only Euclidian nonsense, I know that, and I can’t consent to live by it! What comfort is it to me that there are none guilty and that cause follows effect simply and directly, and that I know it—I must have justice, or I will destroy myself. And not justice in some remote infinite time and space, but here on earth, and that I could see myself. I have believed in it. I want to see it, and if I am dead by then, let me rise again, for if it all happens without me, it will be too unfair. Surely I haven’t suffered, simply that I, my crimes and my sufferings, may manure the soil of the future harmony for somebody else. I want to see with my own eyes the hind lie down with the lion and the victim rise up and embrace his murderer. I want to be there when every one suddenly understands what it has all been for. All the religions of the world are built on this longing, and I am a believer. But then there are the children, and what am I to do about them? That’s a question I can’t answer. For the hundredth time I repeat, there are numbers of questions, but I’ve only taken the children, because in their case what I mean is so unanswerably clear. Listen! If all must suffer to pay for the eternal harmony, what have children to do with it, tell me, please? It’s beyond all comprehension why they should suffer, and why they should pay for the harmony. Why should they, too, furnish material to enrich the soil for the harmony of the future? I understand solidarity in sin among men. I understand solidarity in retribution, too; but there can be no such solidarity with children. And if it is really true that they must share responsibility for all their fathers’ crimes, such a truth is not of this world and is beyond my comprehension. Some jester will say, perhaps, that the child would have grown up and have sinned, but you see he didn’t grow up, he was torn to pieces by the dogs, at eight years old. Oh, Alyosha, I am not blaspheming! I understand, of course, what an upheaval of the universe it will be, when everything in heaven and earth blends in one hymn of praise and everything that lives and has lived cries aloud: ‘Thou art just, O Lord, for Thy ways are revealed.’ When the mother embraces the fiend who threw her child to the dogs, and all three cry aloud with tears, ‘Thou are just. O Lord!’ then, of course, the crown of knowledge will be reached and all will be made clear. But what pulls me up here is that I can’t accept that harmony. And while I am on earth, I make haste to take my own measures. You see, Alyosha, perhaps it really may happen that if I live to that moment, or rise again to see it, I, too, perhaps, may cry aloud with the rest, looking at the mother embracing the child’s torturer, ‘Thou art just, O Lord!’ but I don’t want to cry aloud then. While there is still time. I hasten to protect myself and so I renounce the higher harmony altogether. It’s not worth the tears of that one tortured child who beat itself on the breast with its little fist and prayed in its stinking outhouse, with its unexpiated tears to ‘dear, kind God’! It’s not worth it, because those tears are unatoned for. They must be atoned for, or there can be no harmony. But how? How are you going to atone for them? Is it possible? By their being avenged? But what do I care for avenging them? What do I care for a hell for oppressors? What good can hell do, since those children have already been tortured? And what becomes of harmony, if there is hell? I want to forgive. I want to embrace. I don’t want more suffering. And if the sufferings of children go to swell the sum of sufferings which was necessary to pay for truth, then I protest that the truth is not worth such a price. I don’t want the mother to embrace the oppressor who threw her son to the dogs! She dare not forgive him! Let her forgive him for herself, if she will, let her forgive the torturer for the immeasurable suffering of her mother’s heart. But the sufferings of her tortured child she has no right to forgive; she dare not forgive the torturer, even if the child were to forgive him! And if that is so, if they dare not forgive, what becomes of harmony? Is there in the whole world a being who would have the right to forgive and could forgive? I don’t want harmony. From love for humanity I don’t want it. I would rather be left with the unavenged suffering. I would rather remain with my unavenged suffering and unsatisfied indignation, even if I were wrong. Besides, too high a price is asked for harmony; it’s beyond our means to pay so much to enter on it. And so I hasten to give back my entrance ticket, and if I am an honest man I am bound to give it back as soon as possible. And that I am doing. It’s not God that I don’t accept, Alyosha, only I most respectfully return Him the ticket.”
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