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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jan 24, 2009 - 05:22am PT
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It must be fun to have a bag put over your head, handcuffed, leg cuffed, yelled at, waterboarded, sleep deprivation, etc etc etc...
Have you tried it Chaz, Lois et al?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
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All the explosives seized from Al-Jawary and the other men bore the same wrapping from a pastry shop in Beirut which served as a front for Fatah, the military arm of the PLO. Al-Jawary's fingerprints were on the wrapping.
Still, Germany released Al-Jawary long before the FBI knew that he had been taken into custody.
And he disappeared once again.
Excuse me? Released? I hope we have GPS on this sack of $hit!
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 25, 2009 - 01:58am PT
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Everyone should stop worrying about Obama and start fixing their own problems.
Your apple trees need love ....
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 25, 2009 - 02:14am PT
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TGT wrote
"Uh, Karl get your facts straight. All of the Afghanis were sent back soon after the Karzai government was established.
Everyone left in Gitmo after that were terrorists from other countries, (largely Saudis) that no one wanted back."
I didn't say they were Afghanis, just that they were from Afghanistan and Iraq. Where did we pick up the "terrorists" that are in Gitmo now?
Remember, we used to be in the business of sending Saudis to Afghanistan so it should be no surprise that there are Saudis there.
as for your question Lois, If you read the news, it's all there. Many honest Military people working in Gitmo have admitted there are/were plenty of innocent people there, and the Red Cross has said so too I believe
But I've actually posted links addressed to you in particular you stupid slut, so it's grieves me that you would have to repeatedly ask for proof and then refuse to read it.
But here's a little tidbit anyway
from
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/detainees/story/38773.html
"...The McClatchy investigation found that top Bush administration officials knew within months of opening the Guantanamo detention center that many of the prisoners there weren't "the worst of the worst." From the moment that Guantanamo opened in early 2002, former Secretary of the Army Thomas White said, it was obvious that at least a third of the population didn't belong there.
Of the 66 detainees whom McClatchy interviewed, the evidence indicates that 34 of them, about 52 percent, had connections with militant groups or activities. At least 23 of those 34, however, were Taliban foot soldiers, conscripts, low-level volunteers or adventure-seekers who knew nothing about global terrorism.
Only seven of the 66 were in positions to have had any ties to al Qaida's leadership, and it isn't clear that any of them knew any terrorists of consequence.
If the former detainees whom McClatchy interviewed are any indication — and several former high-ranking U.S. administration and defense officials said in interviews that they are — most of the prisoners at Guantanamo weren't terrorist masterminds but men who were of no intelligence value in the war on terrorism.
Far from being an ally of the Taliban, Mohammed Akhtiar had fled to Pakistan shortly after the puritanical Islamist group took power in 1996, the senior Afghan intelligence officer told McClatchy. The Taliban burned down Akhtiar's house after he refused to ally his tribe with their government.
The Americans detained Akhtiar, the intelligence officer said, because they were given bad information by another Afghan who'd harbored a personal vendetta against Akhtiar going back to his time as a commander against the Soviet military during the 1980s.
"In some of these cases, tribal feuds and political feuds have played a big role" in people getting sent to Guantanamo, the intelligence officer said...."
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 25, 2009 - 02:19am PT
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Since you got me started, here another clip. Promise to read just this little bit eh?
from
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16227791/
"..But through interviews with justice and police officials, detainees and their families, and using reports from human rights groups and local media, The Associated Press was able to track 245 of those formerly held at Guantanamo. The investigation, which spanned 17 countries, found:
Once the detainees arrived in other countries, 205 of the 245 were either freed without being charged or were cleared of charges related to their detention at Guantanamo.
Forty either stand charged with crimes or continue to be detained.
Only a tiny fraction of transferred detainees have been put on trial. The AP identified 14 trials, in which eight men were acquitted and six are awaiting verdicts. Two of the cases involving acquittals — one in Kuwait, one in Spain — initially resulted in convictions that were overturned on appeal.
The Afghan government has freed every one of the more than 83 Afghans sent home. Lawmaker Sibghatullah Mujaddedi, the head of Afghanistan's reconciliation commission, said many were innocent and wound up at Guantanamo because of tribal or personal rivalries.
At least 67 of 70 repatriated Pakistanis are free after spending a year in Adiala Jail. A senior Pakistani Interior Ministry official said investigators determined that most had been "sold" for bounties to U.S. forces by Afghan warlords who invented links between the men and al-Qaida. "We consider them innocent," said the official, who declined to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue.
All 29 detainees who were repatriated to Britain, Spain, Germany, Russia, Australia, Turkey, Denmark, Bahrain and the Maldives were freed, some within hours after being sent home for "continued detention."
Some former detainees say they never intended to harm the United States and are bitter.
"I can't wash the three long years of pain, trouble and humiliation from my memory," said Badarzaman Badar, an Afghan who was freed in Pakistan. "It is like a cancer in my mind that makes me disturbed every time I think of those terrible days."
Think about it
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 25, 2009 - 02:20am PT
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and yes Jane, I called you a stupid slut
It's kind of a old joke that dates back to when I posted you the evidence in the first place
Remember now?
;-)
Karl
A supertopo search of LEB and slut returns 151 results. A supertopo search of Karl and slut returns 23 returns, eight of which were written by LEB and 9 were written by Me or Moosie!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 25, 2009 - 02:26am PT
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See my edit above Lois.
A supertopo search of LEB and slut returns 151 results. A supertopo search of Karl and slut returns 23 returns, eight of which were written by LEB and 9 were written by Me or Moosie!
It's a long running joke that you yourself have fed. So funny it strikes you out of the blue now!
love you
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 25, 2009 - 02:43am PT
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So maybe I'm only half right about Lois being stupid slut, but check this post from this thread
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=646146&msg=647087#msg647087
"Lois should have PLENTY of background in this issue already. Check out this thread, in which Lois posted 35 TIMES, in which plenty of evidence that many gitmo prisoners were innocent was presented to her
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=218147&msg=219076
Peace
Karl"
So disrespectful of people's time that you claim ignorance and lack of evidence when it's been presented to you over and over. You could post evidence to the contrary but you may as well just admit that you like to read yourself type and don't care to learn anything.
Here's just one post from that thread
"Lois
We think there are more innocent people in Gitmo than actual terrorists because those who made an informed and rational investigation into it have shown this to be true.
From the La Times:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0511-04.htm
Most 'Arrested by Mistake'
Coalition intelligence put numbers at 70% to 90% of Iraq prisoners, says a February Red Cross report, which details further abuses.
by Bob Drogin
WASHINGTON — Coalition military intelligence officials estimated that 70% to 90% of prisoners detained in Iraq since the war began last year "had been arrested by mistake," according to a confidential Red Cross report given to the Bush administration earlier this year.
Yet the report described a wide range of prisoner mistreatment — including many new details of abusive techniques — that it said U.S. officials had failed to halt, despite repeated complaints from the International Committee of the Red Cross.....
and Here
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0503-07.htm
News that the Pentagon will soon release about a third of the prisoners still detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has prompted the U.S. media and many in the blogosphere to recall Defense Secretary Rumsfeld's 2002 statement referring to Guantanamo prisoners as "the worst of the worst."
And as recently as June 2005, he said, "If you think of the people down there, these are people, all of whom were captured on a battlefield. They're terrorists, trainers, bomb makers, recruiters, financiers, [Osama bin Laden's] bodyguards, would-be suicide bombers, probably the 20th 9/11 hijacker."
But the Pentagon's announcement that it would soon release 141 prisoners – or about a third of those still detained at Guantanamo – comes despite continuing stubborn defenses of the facility and the way interrogators have determined the status of detainees.
This is not the first time prisoners have been released from the facility. Of the approximately 760 prisoners brought to Guantanamo since 2002, the military has previously released 180 and transferred 76 to the custody of other countries.
The Pentagon says the prisoners to be released no longer represent a threat to the U.S. and have no further intelligence value.
But critics of the George W. Bush administration's detention policies assert that the military does not have enough evidence on these people to try them, even before its own tribunals, which have a much lower threshold of evidence than U.S. courts.....
A snippet from the AP
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0531-10.htm
AP: Gitmo Detainees Say They Were Sold
They fed them well. The Pakistani tribesmen slaughtered a sheep in honor of their guests, Arabs and Chinese Muslims famished from fleeing U.S. bombing in the Afghan mountains. But their hosts had ulterior motives: to sell them to the Americans, said the men who are now prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.
Bounties ranged from $3,000 to $25,000, the detainees testified during military tribunals, according to transcripts the U.S. government gave The Associated Press to comply with a Freedom of Information lawsuit.
A former CIA intelligence officer who helped lead the search for Osama bin Laden told AP the accounts sounded legitimate because U.S. allies regularly got money to help catch Taliban and al-Qaida fighters. Gary Schroen said he took a suitcase of $3 million in cash into Afghanistan himself to help supply and win over warlords to fight for U.S. Special Forces.
"It wouldn't surprise me if we paid rewards," said Schroen, who retired after 32 years in the CIA soon after the fall of Kabul in late 2001. He recently published the book "First In: An Insider's Account of How the CIA Spearheaded the War on Terror in Afghanistan."
It's obvious. They knew Americans were looking for Arabs, so they captured Arabs and sold them — just like someone catches a fish and sells it.
Guantanamo prisoner "
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 25, 2009 - 02:57am PT
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You silly Lois! Can't you read?
Common Dreams is merely a news portal. Of the references I cited through Common Dreams:
One was from the Associated Press quoting a CIA source
One was from the LA Times quoting a Report from the Red Cross which had investigated and visited Gitmo
and the other was from the Inter-press service quoting the LA times and the Pentagon's own actions.
I clearly posted where the original story was from. It's easier to use commondreams links since some papers require you to register to read the items directly from their site.
You'd know about that but you never, ever research nor back up your opinions here with any evidence, so you don't appreciate the time it takes to show your work in making your point.
Also worth noting that my last post was a repost from a long time ago. Neither of today's posts referenced commondreams. One was MSNBC
Think about it.
Karl
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jan 25, 2009 - 03:11am PT
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Sis, Sis, sis; if they have the brownshirt authority to put anyone in the hole, where does a family like ours, stand?
If they come for me, it's your job to bring me the file in the cake. I don't want to be in jail with any, fake, criminals.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 25, 2009 - 04:33am PT
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Nice one
It's funny, both Al Queda and Amnesty International will probably suffer lost donations as a result of Obama's election. The fear business is going to need a bailout.
Peace
Karl
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