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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Jstan"
As you know-we were occasionally climbing partners way back and in my opinion, your comments here have been written with much insight.
However, I do disagree with your comment regarding teachers. I was a teacher for over 30 years and feel the problem in our education system is far more complex than just blaming the teachers. I know your educational background. What perhaps was the single most important factor which contributed to your educational success, (aside from your genes you inherited)? I bet it was your parental influence and family structure. Why do some kids succeed and others flounder in school. After teaching thousands of kids - I am convinced it is largely influenced by their parental guidance and support. We raised 2 kids who both maintained "A" averages in college. My son is finishing up a PHD at PENN on an NSF Scholarship.
We were very involved with our kids as they grew up and I took my son on many climbing trips; including some pretty serious adventures. The majority of my former students would never experience that type of bonding experience with a parent.
There were years where I had classes in which half the class came from 1 parent households! That alone is a major reason why our system is failing. There are many other problems as well, one of which is the addiction of many students to video games but again that is just another indication of values in our society. Sorry for the rant! Perhaps we will meet in October.
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scarcollector
climber
CO
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At her request, I once gave a girlfriend a haircut. Big mistake. Based on that experience I said to myself, "I'm really not competent at cutting hair, and I won't do it anymore."
Would it be fair to say that anyone who ever voted for W should look in the mirror and acknowledge, "maybe I should just avoid all political expression?"
No?
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jstan
climber
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Scar:
I voted for W in 2000 because of the Lewinsky absurdity. If a president lies about anything they can lie about starting a war. Clinton should have been impeached pro forma by Congress, immediately. What certain people learned from that not happening, immediately, was that there was little risk in lying. Even absurdly obvious untruths carry no risk. Healthy Forests. Such things rot the body politic down to a core of pure cynicism and self-interest. What I learned from subsequent events was in political leaning i have to diversify. If you let one factor over weigh everything else your risk of error goes up, way up.
I am not the only person who is subject to that error. It is most generally expressed as the belief one party or the other is the only good one. Since WW II we have been searching for an easy sure way to make big decisions. There is none but we have sold ourselves on the idea voting for a party does the trick. It does not. When you weigh party versus the welfare of us all, those with whom we disagree as well as those with whom we agree, the choice is unmistakeable. We have to protect each other first and it is never easy to see the right.
The US is on a disastrous road and whatever the election result, we will remain on that road. We need a sea change in this nation and failing work by each of us, we will inevitably take that road to its awful conclusion.
Those who are unable to make their decision and so decide not to vote are failing to do the duty they owe their friends and family.
Steve:
You are absolutely right. The blame lies everywhere. I am the only member of my family who was not a teacher. I would not have been a good one. Teaching takes patience, infinite patience. When I decide something needs to be done, I run toward it. Can’t teach that way. Learning comes when a person is excited by the new ability to do things that before were impossible. A little like a climber who, just standing there, begins to feel new muscles popping out. Silly simile, but maybe not so silly.
If I had any impact we all could bring the oil lobby to its knees in just months by letting our cars sit unused and voting into Congress people who are willing to follow us. But it’s a good thing I have no impact. It is never wise to pay too much attention to any one person.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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"Like I posted earlier on this thread, I think that Obama has already won the election and will be the next POTUS, barring any sort of shenanigans on the Republicans part."
Hmmm, would you like to buy some nice beach front property in Florida, or a slightly used bridge in Brooklyn?
I'll make you a bet that there will be more republican shenanigans this time around than ever before. There are enough deluded people (like Lois, and apparently Jstan too, SHAME on you for voting for Bush, I hope it didn't happen twice for your sake) who will vote for McCain in spite of everything, that the outcome is seriously in doubt.
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jstan
climber
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This will not be over till it is over. Everyone needs to redouble what they are doing in each of the two remaining months. One more ideologue on the supreme court will complete the destruction of law, already being violated wholesale.
This is it.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Lois you don't support Obama's values though you know nothing of them.
You would rather vote for a man with NO values and No moral convictions.
Is it because he is a republican and you are so pleased with the job they have done for the past 8 years?
Or is it bcause Obama is a 1/2 black man?
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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fattrad..
I'm not sure how you can look your self in the mirror and ask the question:
by voting for Bush and Co twice- are we on the right path when the following has happened because of the drunken power the right enjoyed for 6 years:
an unprovoked war with Iraq when ALL of the REASONS they gave us are found out to be LIES?
By deregulation of Airlines, banking, mortgage companies and insurance industry, those so called: SELF REGULATIONS now have proven they don't work because those same companies only care about profits and not long term stability?
Loss of liberties that we have fought many wars to preserve?
the list goes on and on...
I blame all those who voted for Bush and someday you will have to answer for it when your daughter asks: why can't i have clean air, food or water daddy?
How you can say that Gore or Kerry would have been worse is beyond me and shows your greed and ignorance to the situ we are in and the world around us...
I'm Kurt Smith and i approve this message...
vote OBAMA...
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Mr Smith writes:
"Loss of liberties that we have fought many wars to preserve?"
Which liberties would these be?
Please Advise.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Lois, your values must include torture then.
McCain is for torture.
That should be enough for you to not vote for him.
Face it Lois, YOU are pro torture by your continued support for McCain, who is pro torture.
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howlostami
Trad climber
Southern Tier, NY
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Could someone please explain to me what republican ideals have been shown by GWB, and compare and contrast these to the governance of WJC, and please explain to me how GWB has been more republican than the democrat who proceeded him? Looking at the two presidencies it looks to me like the democrat is far closer to being old school republican than the republican. What governement will McCain bring us? Details people! We know that Obama will be a return to a clintonian regime... That wasn't so bad!
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Binks
Social climber
i am of the universe and you know what it's worth.
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The first of three exact alignments of Saturn to Uranus occurs on election day. McCain represents Saturn (the old, the institutional, the rigid, the unbending, the past). Obama represents Uranus (the future, change, revolution, innovation, lightning speed). We are entering an astrological period very similar to the 1960's. It is the Uranus Pluto square alignment. In the 1960's, it was a Uranus Pluto conjunction. In regards to the Uranus Pluto square (which really begins to cook in 2010, and lasts until about 2015), Obama represents "resistance against the future". If McCain it is "resistance against the past". Either way, the astrology of the near future is all about resistance, change, and uncomfortable and urgent events. Pick your archetype.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Torture.
This thread is beginning to torture me.
John, you voted for Bush because Clinton lied about a blow job? Is that correct?
I have no doubts whatsoever that George W Bush will go down in history as the worst president ever, and, if justice prevails (which it oftentimes doesn't), he will be viewed as a criminal, war criminal and scumbag of the earth (and universe).
And Cheney & Co as well.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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It's not the teachers. I went and got a teaching credential 6-7 years ago and was amazed at the quality of people with post-graduate degrees working for peanuts.
I think we have become a consumer-entertainment society that has lost interest in the higher principles that informed our practice of democracy, as long as it delivered our selfish goods.
We could look the other way if somebody was tortured or bombed.
We will be forced by the envionmental and economic consequences of our actions to face ourselves. Let's choose truth over fascism.
Peace
karl
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Hey skip, just you come get some, idiot.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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"dirt,
I am not pro-torture"
Yes, you are, by proxy. McCain is pro torture. You are pro McCain.
"and the election does not rest on one issue."
Correct. there are PLENTY of otehr good reasons to vote democrat, but since you will summarily ignore them all, what would be the point in starting yet anohter fruitless discussion?
" I am reasonably confident that if McCain achieves the presidency he will revert to his true position which is opposed to torture."
And I am confident that if he wins then the crimes of Bush and co will go unpunished, and the destruction of the once great USA will continue.
"I don't know why he sold out. Probably Cheney fed him some horseshit about the importance of getting elected and not antagonizing the base or whatever. Maybe even the horseshit was true horseshit i.e. he can't do anything if he does not get elected."
And why do you have to know? Is it not enough that he DID flip? And the fact that you suspect cheney of having any influence at all over McCain should be enough for a sane person to run to the other side immediately.
" Who knows but if there is one person who probably will impede torture tactics once he is elected, it is likely McCain."
HAHAHAHAHA, I would think that the one person most likely to do just that is the one who is AGAINST it, and has been against it.
"Everyone,
Now lets put aside all emotion for a minute - and stop throwing supermarket tantrums and look at some hardcore issues of why people like me don't want Obama for Pres. Lets tease out but one issue for starters e.g. capital gains taxes. Now throughout all the years I worked a lot of extra shifts - sometimes doubles back to back - holidays, nights, etc. I did without a lot of stuff to save in my retirement account but, hey, it was my choice. Nobody made me do it and if I suffered at all from exhaustion, it was my choosing. If I did without, that was my choosing, also. No big deal. There was no gun to my head.
So I socked away a bit of cash in a retirement account - half a mil to be exact - not a whole lot of money, relatively speaking but still it is my (or rather our since I am married) IRA-retirement funds. Other people like me did the same. No big deal. My parents, for example, socked away twice that amount earning less than half of what I did but they were depressionites - they lived in a different world then what we do. I am extravagant compared to them.
OK, so now I am approaching retirement within the next decade or so and I am thinking about cashing in on some of my IRA funds to supplement my retirement income - SS and all that good stuff. You know, maybe I don't want to work so hard when I reach my 60s and 70s (probably I will be but I am just saying).
So now along comes Obama who wants to hike up the capital gains tax - yeah, right, Jack. Like, I need you like a hole in the head. I guess I am the "evil rich" from whom Obama would like to protect the country. Obama was not there while I was doing on various midnight double shifts, gulping down coffee so as to stay awake. Obama was not there when I was doing without stuff in the interest of saving for retirement. Obana was not there for any of it but now he wants to protect people from me. Well thanks but no thanks, Mr. O. I'll just vote for McCain, but thank you very much anyway."
Wrong as usual Lois.
read this:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200806120006
"This is BUT ONE one issue wherein Obama and I do not see eye-to-eye. I could cite many more. For those who wish to take a break from name calling, I am trying to illustrate there are two sides to every issue."
But you didn't even do your homework, not even a little bit. You don;t even understnad what Obama proposed, you just bought the fear mongering from the right wing nutjobs who love torture and loss of civil rights and such.
"Gentlemen, I am off to work now and won't be back until well after midnight or 1 am so I will not be around for a while to respond to your vitriol and name-calling. I will just be about my evil ways for the next while. Later....."
Not evil, but perhaps willfully ignorant.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oh hey LEB I found a picture that might help out your future postings. It explains could care less vs couldn't care less.
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jstan
climber
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Lois
I read you last post three times. I am not a CPA but it at least seems to me you have something wrong. You talk only about your tax-advantaged accounts. When you take distributions on tax-advantaged accounts, as I understand it, they are taxed as REGULAR INCOME!!!! (Mind you the taxable portion as calculated on your 8606 will exempt your basis, if any, from taxation. The basis generally is pretty small.) But the capital gains rate is NOT USED AT ALL. As an extreme example of this behavior; if you hold Federal Treasuries in an IRA, even though they are normally exempt from State taxation, the law on IRA's causes them to be taxed as regular income when you take distribution. So they get taxed by the state in which you are domiciled even though they are Federal securities.
Now if you have accounts that are not tax-advantaged and you are holding equities in them, those would benefit from the capital gains rate if held the required minimum time or greater before sale.
If I am correct, which I may not be, you need to talk to your CPA, soon. If anyone sees where I am incorrect feel free to pipe up.
My mother also went through the Depression and she taught me how to double my money, without fail. When you are about to buy something, fold the bills in half and put them back in your wallet. Warren Buffet himself would be “poor” were his expenditure rate higher than his income. By getting on the right side of this tradeoff each of us has the ability to make ourself “wealthy”.
This is the major lesson everyone learned during the Depression.
AND IT IS THE LESSON WE HAVE VIOLATED WHOLESALE WHILE GETTING INTO OUR PRESENT MESS.
As a result of her instruction I too have to worry about the future. In my estimation our country's grossly improvident financial policies, especially since 2000 plus general global conditions, mean the dollar will become ever weaker, we will have inflation(like we are seeing today), and the increasing cost of carrying the Federal debt(and State debts) will leave absolutely no choice but increased taxation. No matter who is elected, they will face bankruptcy as the only other option. So I am taking the leap and bearing the huge cost of converting IRA's to Roth accounts. My modelling spanning the next thirty years suggests, even with no increase in taxation, holding Roths in place of IRA's results in a 15% benefit. If there is increased taxation, that benefit will increase proportionately to the size of the increases.
Since I am not a certified practitioner everyone reading this MUST realize these statements are worth exactly what you paid for them. NOTHING. But if any of it appears important to you in your situation
GO TALK TO A PROFESSIONAL.
EDIT:
HDDJ:
As I said I am not a professional, but if you believe capital gains rates can be applied to IRA distributions, I believe this is wrong. Whatever the nature of the assets in your IRA when you report the results of their sale as a distribution( less the prorated basis) from line 18 of your 8606 you report it as regular taxable income at regular rates on line 15b of your 1040.
If I misread your post, I apologize.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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The whole point with a retirement account is that you get to put tax differed cash into investments and pay a lower rate on it later for doing nothing but sitting on it. You still pay way less taxes with cap gains going back to what it was pre-Bush than not. I'm of the opinion that people who work shouldn't be taxed more than people who don't. Repubs love to protect investments from "tax deterrents" but see no problem with the tax rates for people who actually work being way, way higher. It should all be taxed at the same level IMO.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Well Lois you are continuously shown that your assumptions are wrong.
How about clearly presenting his stances as you see them rather than making false blanket statements about them?
Better yet why not quit making outlandish assumptions about Obama and read his stances for yourself?
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jstan
climber
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Find here the full text of over 100 speeches.
http://obamaspeeches.com/
Included in the top five is his speech prior to our invasion of Iraq.
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