Guns on campus

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Mimi

climber

Apr 18, 2007 - 01:04am PT

Well alright Jody. If that's the way you see it. I see your point of view.

I hope for your sake he doesn't have too many pics of you. LOL! We'll be looking forward to the fireworks.

Crimpergirl

Social climber

Hell on earth wondering what I did to deserve it

Apr 18, 2007 - 02:42am PT

Joe: true on the 90s numbers. Don't forget, the violent victimization numbers (regardless of the source) gets no higher than what we saw in the early/mid 90s.

Recall how stuff gets published in academia. Someone writes a paper. It is sent out to three experts in the field to get reviewed. Based on those reviews, the editor of the journal decides to publish or not. Some fields can be very difficult to publish in then. Who are the DGU experts? It is said in this field that one of the experts (I won't write it) has NEVER EVER given a paper they reviewed anything but a REJECTION. For me personally, recall that my expertise is in the NCVS. There are very good reasons that the NCVS has lower estimates than pretty much every other data set out there. I think it is the soundest data available (for what it was intended) as well. You can see how my expertise adds some difficulty for me personally in the DGU publication world. You can see why so few are published in this field.

Another thing, when I was at DOJ, we purposely did NOT publish DGU conclusions. It is still the case there too. Why? Did not want to appear to be suggesting that folks should or should not engage in DGU. Pretty big weight to carry to suggest that folks act in a way (either way) and that behavior get them killed or maimed. Even today in lectures, I teach intuition. That is, trust your intuition to guide you in a specific encounter. Though I have numbers on DGU, I'm not willing to bet others' lives on them.

Lots of folks do not like Kleck's work. But one shouldn't confuse not liking his conclusions with his methodology really. Kleck's work is transparent. Would I do it differently? Yeah. Would others? Sure. Some maybe not. But at least you can look at his stuff and know exactly what you are dealing with and decide "hey those numbers are inflated" or "wow, those are conservative" or "those numbers are way old" or "wow, i hate the way he defined something, but I'm not sure how i could do it better since that's a really hard concept to measure" or whatever. Amazing how one set of numbers can lead two people to totally different conclusions. That's was makes our conferences so fun. And that is what makes two-mild mannered criminologists (or whomever) get after it after a beer or two. Words fly, limbs fly, pretty soon it's a geek fight. Luckily, few of them carry weapons so at least so far, none has offed another. :)

People like to say that statistics lie. That is a silly way to see them since statistics are just summary numbers. Nothing more, nothing less. Saying "statistics lie" is as silly as saying "my shoes lie". Or "my toenail polish lies". Or "that cloud is telling me lies." If someone feels this way, they should quickly see a mental health care professional. Numbers cannot lie. It is up to the reader to be a critical consumer of statistics however and having transparent methodology is required to do so. Kleck's work allows this. One can ask, "how did he define DGU?" "how were his data collected?" "Did he use a probability sample?" "were the statistical techniques used to analyze the data appropriate for the data?" "What are the limitations of his work?" "Are the conclusions relevant today?" "Are his findings generalizeable to the population?" "What is his role in the public drama about dgu?" Taken together, one can then come to their own conclusion about the question at hand. No data are perfect. No analysis is perfect. But we can still gain important information from most work. But we also can state its limitations.

OMG if you think the 2.5 million number has a make-you-smack-your-head-on-the-table life of its own, start noticing the "every 3 seconds a woman is raped" number. Talk about a piece of garbage stat that will not go away. That is the worst in my opinion. That stat is SO far off the truth of the matter. Ugh. Or you can think about what Joel Best (Damned Lies and Statistics - FANTASTIC BOOK) says is the worst statistic ever: "Every year since 1950 the number of kids gunned down in America has doubled." While the rape number is widespread (and wrong), the stat cited by Best is unbelievably horrible (just not as widespread).

Fun stuff. We can talk about this at sushifest if you like also. :)

Ouch!

climber

Apr 18, 2007 - 04:03am PT

Yo! Mimi! Judy's just sad he grew up to become an Interstate Metermaid. Well, maybe he will grow up someday. Don't know why he is pouting at DMT unless it has to do with him still being embarrassed over trashing Ammon and getting caught.

Trusty Rusty

Social climber

Tahoe area

Apr 18, 2007 - 04:55am PT

We're we talking about guns on campus and the so called feebeld gun control laws of Virginia, or reciting lines from Blue Velvet or Gaius Caligula?

Great topic with intelligent posts gone to water by our typical S.T. taxon amphibians.
"My name is Borat. . .eat cheese from my wifes tits. . make sexy time with mother in law"
Lets all get naked & Fuk. . .quote Jesus & Carl Jung, gargle calistoga, post more idiocracy.

Bottom line is, gun control is like racism. . .you cant remove it and you cant control it. Like war. . .its human behavior. . .irrevocable instinct.
The glock in Cho's hand wasnt the culprit, Roanoke's Gun shop wasnt the culprit, "feebeld Virginian gun control" was not the culprit. . .who pulled the trigger. . .culprit.

Every person on a ledge has interminable (& uncontrollable) resource for assistance to jump. Theres no way to globally control psychosis.

If I lost my very own son to this, I couldnt blame our control systems. . .I'd mourn my own loss & move on.
Casualties of life in our hometowns, national & global wars, they'll never subside. Dont be stupid and think there's an answer or a blame. . .rather, remain calm and focus on your own.

Crimpergirl

Social climber

Hell on earth wondering what I did to deserve it

Apr 18, 2007 - 08:29am PT

Nice post Trusty.

Crimpergirl

Social climber

Hell on earth wondering what I did to deserve it

Apr 18, 2007 - 12:00pm PT

Fatty: The NCVS, the data that I use, has nothing to do with LEO reports. This data comes straight from the mouths of victims/parties. That is why no homicide information is found in this data. Those guys are dead and can't answer any survey questions.

Kleck's data, gathered in the early 1990s, was based on telephone interviews. 5,000 people were called. This also has nothing to do with LEO reports.

Crimpergirl

Social climber

Hell on earth wondering what I did to deserve it

Apr 18, 2007 - 01:06pm PT

No data are perfect, but the NCVS is pretty dang great in that it overcomes the limitations of other types of data (e.g, official records, self report).

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Apr 18, 2007 - 01:20pm PT

I got a kick out of this. This is probably an appropriate place to post it.....

EDIT: This interview never happend, but is funny all the same.

THE BEST COMEBACK LINE EVER!
>
> Marine Corps General Reinwald was interviewed on the Radio the other day
> and you'll love his reply to the lady who interviewed him concerning guns
> and children. Regardless of how you Feel about Gun Laws you gotta love
> this!!!! This is one of the best Comeback lines Of All time. It is a
> portion of a National Public Radio (NPR) interview, which is a
> nationally funded, left wing, liberal radio station......
>
> Between a female broadcaster and US Marine Corps General Reinwald who was
> about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting His military installation.
>
> FEMALE INTERVIEWER: So, General Reinwald, what things are you going to
> teach these young boys when they visit your base?
>
> GENERAL REINWALD: We're going to teach them climbing,canoeing, archery,
> and shooting.
>
> FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible,isn't it?
>
> GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the
> rifle range.
>
> FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous
> activity to be teaching children?
>
> GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle
> discipline before they even touch a firearm.
>
> FEMALE INTERVIEWER: But you're equipping them to become violent killers.
>
> GENERAL REINWALD: Well, ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but
> you're not one, are you?
>
> The radio went silent and the interview ended. You gotta love the Marines!
>
> AMERICA , THE HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OFTHE BRAVE!!!
>

Lost Arrow

Trad climber

The North Ridge of the San Fernando

Apr 18, 2007 - 01:27pm PT

When I broke down halfway to the Guads Caves in the middle of know where a truck with a camper shell made repeated drive bys.
Eventualy stoping about 100 ft behind us and sitting their for ten minutes. This is at 2 am on an isolated road.

I put my mag of hollow points in my 9mm and cocked it ready to fire.

My soon to be wife was really freaked out, I was very focsused as I would be on a difficult lead way out from pro.

The guy drove up next to my vehicle and asked if I had car trouble. He was a hick type of guy one might see in the south.
He saw I had a female in the car and suggested I come with him to find help and leave my girlfriend in the Car.

I asked him if he could go summon some help as I did not plan to leave my girlfriend.

All the time I am 1/4 second away from blowing his f*#king head off.

I used to go to gun club all the time and it would have been quite easy to unload my clip.

He kept insisting I go with him and my girlfriend would be okay.

At this point I pointed the 9mm directly at his face.

Seeing the gun as I remember it he just drove off.

What would have been the out come of the story if I did not have a gun? Use your imagination.

Jeff

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Apr 18, 2007 - 02:34pm PT

If everybody that had access to a gun used it whenever they got upset there wouldn't be a population problem. Period. End of story.

Sounds like a great solution to overpopulation.

Hi Jody, nice to have you back, but all of you quit throwing spitballs.

Yeah, good to see you back Jody, honest. Now where are the photos you are so good at?

Though I have to say Jody, you seem to have come back a bit more crankier. And the only reason that I may suspect what some Supertopians believe, that you were posting here all the time with another handle, is because of the AKClimber handle.

A Crowley, from Wiki(pinch of salt)pedia

An avatar (abbreviations include AV, ava, avv, avy and avvy) is an Internet user's representation of himself or herself, whether in the form of a three-dimensional model used in computer games,[1] a two-dimensional icon used on Internet forums and other communities,[2][3] or a text construct found on early systems such as MUDs. The term "avatar" can also refer to the personality connected with the screen name, or handle, of an Internet user.[4]

NRA: Guns don’t kill, people kill.

Yeah, I agree with that statement. I have never heard of a gun popping itself out of a drawer, walking out the door, down the street and shooting people.

So that is a real smart statement (not). Duhhhhhh

Spyork, maybe they meant heterosexual not heterosupercalifragislitsicesupertopiandocious.

Ouch!

climber

Apr 18, 2007 - 04:13pm PT

"Barney Fife lol! Reminds me of a troll called AKCLIMBER hahahahaha!"

I wonder if AKClimber gets to have a bullet for his gun, like Barney. Probably a blank one.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Apr 18, 2007 - 04:14pm PT

So you allmost wasted a guy who was possibly trying to help you or maby trying to hurt you? hard telling not really knowing but you can't go back and do it over once the gun goes off..........One of severl instances where a firearm has come in handy.. Lady got a DWI in front of my cabin once. The cops took her away and left her vehicle in my driveway for the tow truck to eventualy recover. 3:00am and the drunk husband thinks that the drunk wife is in the sack with me not knowing that she was really in the slammer. A .357 was a good thing to have down allong my leg on the far side from him. He was wicked agitated, combative and trashed and the wife dedfinatly was cheating on him as there was a drunk guy with her when she got busted. Hubby never saw the gun even though I had a real hard time getting him to leave and convinceing him that the wench was in jail and not in my house. I would have karate kicked him down the steps long before i ever would have let him see the piece but it was there if he ws strapped. So yes guns have their place it's just doubtfull IMOP that most people would benifit from carrying out on the street. Too much can go wrong and once the gun comes into play you can't lower off, pull the ropes and start over.

Wild Bill

climber

Apr 18, 2007 - 04:20pm PT

Bluering - funny story.

But I gotta believe that was apocryphal. Anyone around these parts actually HEAR this supposed interview?

NPR = Namby Pamby Radio.

BUT, that one can't be real, IMO

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Apr 18, 2007 - 04:29pm PT

I agree with you Wild Bill, that radio interview sounds like an urban myth, though I could be wrong. But I can see why some one like Bluering can get a hard on over it (not to be crude or rude).

Lost Arrow

Trad climber

The North Ridge of the San Fernando

Apr 18, 2007 - 04:30pm PT

No, I did not report it. Sure I am sure once I got in his car everything would be fine.

Sorry for being so stupid.

Jeff

Ouch!

climber

Apr 18, 2007 - 04:43pm PT

Hmmm! Your rant could be interpreted as a warning sign. You should keep your bullet in your pocket.

climber

East of Seattle

Apr 18, 2007 - 04:49pm PT

Yeah. Right next to his bible.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Apr 18, 2007 - 04:49pm PT

Jeff, you don't know? maby you did the right thing? maby he was a creep? maby he was really trying to help you but he has crappy social skills??? No autopsy no foul. Funny thing is though he could have got you busted for threatening him with the gun... Go figure... I picked a guy up hitchikeing who had just got out of the slammer. I knew within 3 seconds of meeting him that he was deaf so i pulled out my notebook and a pen and we passed notes back a fourth for a hundred miles. He had witnessed a car accident and seen a lady run a red light to cause it. he tryed to tell the cop but the cop treated him like he was retarded instead of deaf so he signed F U to the cop, spent the night in the slammer and missed his ride home. Another time a state trooper busted a guy for DWI, pulled him out of his car, buckled him up and took him down town. guy is begging for help the whole time the meathead cop is telling him to shut up. turns out the guy wasen't drunk he was haveing a stroke... WTF.. Moral of the story is that preceptions of peoples attitudes or intentions are not allways right.