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jstan
climber
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Mar 13, 2007 - 10:04am PT
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So have we reached a consensus? Post of the year? Let's do it.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Mar 13, 2007 - 10:04am PT
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Anastasia said:
"Also to say a climber doesn't need money to climb hard is silly. These days you are going to need sponsorship to afford just the basics of travel cost, entrance fees, lodging (even camping gets expensive) and food. Add that up and it is not for people with the limited budgets of yesterday. Just even entering a National Park is costly. "
You are talking about a free ride here. Which is what I call a sense of entitlement. Time to get real. A friend on mine who is into his 50s and climbs 5.14 lives off of very little. He has a job in a climbing store and makes enough so that he can climb. Yeah he gets a little free gear here and there but for the most part he pays for everything himself.
There are people out there who climb just as hard if not harder than many of the "big" names mentioned so far. My friend above is one such person. The difference between them and the names is that most have real jobs they come back to after the weekend is over.
Quite frankly I am tired of the current generation of "big" names in rock - much of what is being done is so incremental and without imagination. It is quite obvious that all it is fodder for the rags and sponsors - oooh look Tommy did the Sacrum again today in 2:30:23 he shaved 1.5 seconds off the best and he freed all but the 21.4 feet of the great circle jerk on his 78th try.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Mar 13, 2007 - 10:33am PT
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This whole thread waas worth it for that Largo rant. I was 'at' the table with steelmonkey we were swilling thunderbird, Largo had on a beret and shades, he sat on a stool and occasionally glanced at another stool with an unopened pack 'o' camels on it.
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randomtask
climber
North fork, CA
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Mar 13, 2007 - 10:44am PT
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Coonyard Sounds Off Part 3??
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joane
climber
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Mar 13, 2007 - 10:50am PT
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As with most things it's a matter of balance. I think without the tech consultants it would be a sad state of affairs, input and testing in different environments over time by people who have been around long enough to know and have the objectivity to go beyond the passing fancies is a key to improvement in any business much less selling stuff to be used like climbing stuff --all weather conditions etc.
But the sponsorship decisions should be balanced between how much more you're willing to pay for a blue thingy versus a green thing and a better piece of equipment/gear or whatever. There is always a kind of generic game versus a brand name game going on to create a loyal buying public but it seems to me that for something like climbing which has a lot of technical requirements to sell, I'd rather pay more for high quality than for who is selling it. But I really don't know the ratios of the % of pass thru cost of sponsorship to the various company's products.
Advertising most certainly puts up the price of anything. So would I choose to buy one product over another one because I like one sponsor better than another? No. But when I see stunning advertising photos of great climbers who are sponsored, hmm , that has a bit of influence--if I think they are above being corrupted--so that they would only recommend something they themselves really believed in based on their experience and skill.
A connection that stays with me as a buyer longer is when these sponsored climbers, if they are generally being funded by the climbing community who buys their product testimonials, participate in a real way with the community that supports it. So that it's more of a reciprocal relationship mutually beneficial, not just the one way down to top concept. This is just one aspect.
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TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Mar 13, 2007 - 11:00am PT
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They are going to buy the rock. One time purchase. Paint their logo on it. Take pictures whenever they want. No royalties. The rock won't ever do anything bad, except maybe fall from time to time, but that will be the fault of weather or climbers.
Expect to see new names like Patagonia Recreation Valley, Black Diamond Gorge, Fish Products Monument (ok, maybe not that). The former ambassadors will be able to work as tour guides, kiosk clerks, and retailers in the local official shop - climbing on their off time as usual.
Occasionally, for PR, they will announce raptor closings. Buy now, before they become Wall Street darlings du jour.
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shumaker1
climber
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Mar 13, 2007 - 11:50am PT
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Don't belive anything from a chat site that does not sound right until it is confirmed by a reliable source...
FROM SNEWSNET.COM
Did you hear?... Rumor mill about Patagonia climbing ambassadors is way off base!
Posted: 03/12/2007 In Category(s): Outdoor
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An original post on a well-known climbing forum, SuperTopo.com, on March 9 at 9:17 p.m. PST claiming Patagonia "unceremoniously sh#t canned the rock climbing ambassadors" could not have been further from the truth. In actuality, only three climbing ambassadors are leaving. Dean Potter and his wife Steph Davis/Potter are parting ways with Patagonia. Additionally, Katie Brown is leaving the ambassador fold.
SNEWS® was told that Patagonia and the Potters mutually decided not to renew their ambassador contract for the 2007 fiscal year. Jen Rapp, Patagonia's director of public relations, told SNEWS®, "We wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors and we thank them for our years of partnership."
Rapp added, "Patagonia is looking forward to continued collaboration and product testing, design and marketing with the other athletes as we have for many years."
Patagonia's ambassador athletes are also spokespeople and field representatives for the brand in numerous outdoor sports, including rock and alpine climbing, men's and women's surfing, paddling, Nordic and alpine skiing, snowboarding and trail running.
SNEWS® View: How brave of SuperTopo.com poster "hirigger" to wait until late evening on Friday to post what he or she had to know would obviously be an inflammatory statement: "Yesterday Patagonia unceremoniously sh#t canned the rock climbing ambassadors...you know, the ones being touted as the soul of the sport in the new Yosemite spring catalog we all received last week. looks like they got their use out of them... Ron kauk, Lynn Hill, Dean Potter, Steph Davis, Katie Brown and others-GONE." No chance for Patagonia to respond or for anyone to actually be able to check the facts. In short order, there were 142 posts to the forum, many ripping Patagonia for something the company had not done. And this underscores a very key difference between responsible journalism and irresponsible rumor mongering -- fact-checking. Hirigger should be embarrassed and, if anyone knows who he or she is, made a public example of for being, well, an (you fill in the blank):. If you want to send an email, the profile says it should go to onehighrigger@yahoo.com. As for the Potters and Patagonia parting ways, no surprise there. Dean wrote the epitaph to his ambassador contract when he decided it would be a good idea to poach Delicate Arch in Utah's Arches National Park.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Mar 13, 2007 - 12:11pm PT
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Okay, let me clean up that nicotine withdrawl rant of mine.
Doug Thompkins (North Face and later Esprit) was the original golden thumb, fat cat textile tycoon and meta oranginc Andy, and every other 60s era Yosemite climber with bid-ness aspirations followed Doug's coattails - Chouinard, Robbins, and who knows the rest. (Little known secret: it was Thompkins' wife who had a little clothing line called Plain Jane which triggered the whole shebang).
The Thompkins work model was a great one - plenty of time off for adventuring (kayaking in the 80s, mainly), make exciting and comfortable clothes, have them made in Hong Kong (one year he exported more than a billion dollars of threads out of HK). The advertising (especially with Chouinard) was 60-70s faux coolio, always anchored at some level with real folks who were projected to be just a little more connected, smelly, hip, talented, natural, and basically more lyrical than the rest of us.
These meta cool "common Joes" were seamlessly woven into the branding, which on the face of it was always a grass roots kind of fandango but in fact was spun that way and orchestrated down to the last adverb per what was said and who said it. Again, the unstated credo behind all those photos and all that ad copy was that these were the authentic folks, the real people, devoid of put-on, guff, ego, self consciousness, et al. They had more meaningful relationships with their dogs than you did with you wife or boyfriend. The result was a proto spontaneous wheat grass yubba dub concoction of yams, organic burgers and precious new-age mottos declaring most anything that would vouchsafe their current stand as being the nee plus ultra of organic swank spiritual back room hand job tomfollery, all for the price of their 100 dollah organic under wear. There's cult aspect to all of this jive, as well, and manifests in the negative judgement toward anyone who fails to embrace their "save the environment" campaign as the only viable pursuit of mankind, now and forever.
What you have when you scrape off all the social accretions and insider hip hoppery is an expensive but great product you are likely to get sick of before it wears out. Admit it--Patagonia product is peerless and it always has been. Just about all the other stuff, especially the core message, suffers mightily not from lack of content, importance and relevance of theme, and commitment to same, rather the method of discrimination is such that it's in-grown and hierarchical. It's not an intellectual organization nor should it be one, or could it ever be one, but you'd like to see a little more original thinking coming out of the place.
But that's their business. I just think it's a shame that they have decided to use a grass roots approach of featuring real people doing real things and then show those real folks the back door once it came time to pay some little bit for the pleasure.
Still unanswered is the question of why only climbers got sacked??
JL
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ralph_teh_klimber
climber
ralph town
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Mar 13, 2007 - 12:23pm PT
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Well if any of them need a job, we will be rigging and doing hard rock excavation along a cliff side for about 4 weeks. Mostly with rock drills and hammers. Prolly line them out at $25/hr with no to little experience with real work.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Mar 13, 2007 - 12:54pm PT
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fatty- it's not the shorts that make you look leggless, it's the girth at the top of the shorts- duh! check w/ yer women friends about using vertical stripes to slim your appearance a bit...
my last comment on pattgucci- they really need to hire some new color people (apparently they do all the color selection in house), usually about half their product lines just look off to me.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 13, 2007 - 01:02pm PT
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"Still unanswered is the question of why only climbers got sacked??"
Exactly, it's not like he stained the arch with tobacco spittle or anything really gross. But it does look like Newton's Third Law of Motion holds up even in the slickedback and curled up dimensions of public relations.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Mar 13, 2007 - 01:07pm PT
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I'm not still shopping in the childrens department
gongrats on graduating to the "big and tall" stores
(and we know you ain't that tall)
so ok, maybe the potter clan (eventually) got canned for dean's poaching of DA (i love the bit about the mutual split- "yeah listen, this free money is way to restrictive, and i am sick of seeing pictures of me on slacklines, those are private moments, i need a clean break from this corporate atmosphere, i quit!")
but i wonder whay katie brown is out?
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 13, 2007 - 01:08pm PT
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I talked to the guys yesterday. But I'm not saying anything here.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 13, 2007 - 01:16pm PT
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Nope, you all have to talk to them yourselves. Bye now.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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Mar 13, 2007 - 01:19pm PT
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Those who know don't tell... but they can tell that they know... but... who really cares. Enough of the truth is out at last. Game over. Climb on, Dean, climb on, Steph. And Katie. Now you are free, even if the schwag isn't, anymore.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Mar 13, 2007 - 01:22pm PT
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So did they get fired?
JDF
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 13, 2007 - 01:51pm PT
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While I won't be losing too much sleep over knott knowing the lurid details,
I am curious how "Timmy" was able to register those ST accounts using fake
patagonia.com e-mail addresses...
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Mar 13, 2007 - 01:57pm PT
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The only mystery remaining....who is hirigger???
According to Supertopo legend, the answer will, most likely, only be revealed if (s)he develops a personna on the site, gets caught in their own frazzle of fray, and accidentally submits a telling post under a different, recognizable username....
That Snews story certainly had one thing(well - two, actually) more "off base" than the rumor thread, and that was the one offering up hirigger's email as if there was any potential at all that it belonged to a person who uses it in real life and suggest people spam the account. And thinking the OP would be ashamed....Hahaha. They got trade media coverage. Troll Extraordinaire.
Edit: Yes, HK - that is another mystery....Maybe the OP works in Patagonia's office.... Or used to, anyway. If so, I wouldn't think it would be an offense taken lightly.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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Mar 13, 2007 - 02:16pm PT
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Tense times in the land of capilene.
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