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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I just learned a whole lot about MB. None of it good... Not so much from his joke as from his follow ups...
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2019 - 04:49pm PT
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^^^ And it is that very thinking that reveals why this discussion is necessary. The idea that you can LEGITIMATELY be fired for no other reason than that you refuse to follow somebody into their delusional world is a BIG problem.
This is not just about "consensus," like whether or not to pronounce the "t" in "often." This is about increasing mob-rule about whether or not pronouns are even minimally attached to REALITY.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Now in the era of the great leader.
During this the 1st administration of his presidency for life
where he is fulfilling all his promises & draining the swamp.
Hiring the best people, and making America great again.
Facts are whatever I want them to be. The only truth is the truth that suits me now
If later there are other facts that directly contradict the previous facts I get to chose which set to follow and when to follow them.
The gracious writings of this Mad Bolter have made me a switch-hitter
I'm all in to be a Putin`it`in-ya supporter ~+1 A Russian puppetbitch
If you don't gnow it yet we are all fuxed by a stooge
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2019 - 04:50pm PT
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BTW, there are clearly people here who have NO idea what the phrase "echo chamber" means. LOL
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Mb,you have plenty of folks here agreeing with you.
Btw, I just disagree with your premise, not you in particular. You have every right to say what you want,just deal with the opposition as you must.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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madbolter1 is actually a fake mad bolter.
The real deal, TR.Now burn this thread, PLEASE!
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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The idea that you can LEGITIMATELY be fired for no other reason than that you refuse to follow somebody into their delusional world is a BIG problem.
I think it's the private employer's policy that has final say here as "free speech" doesn't extend into workspace. Generally, employer would like pleasant relations between employees, means not saying you got ugly hairdo to a coworker even if you think it's ugly.
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HeschMonster
Trad climber
Morro Bay
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I love the fact that I saw this thread right at the moment that T-Hock's post about LockTite was the very last one...so I had to wonder if it indeed had raised enough ire to be banished.
For the record, I can't see why much of any subject should be banished. Person A is welcome to introduce facts/reasons supporting their position/opinion and Person B is welcome to to the same to rebut or agree/support.
I honestly don't care if a person lays out their facts in a snippy manner or not... however, if they do snipe, it might influence my scrutiny of their facts. Also, lack of facts will usually make me far less likely to come to their same conclusion, unless they're making an obviously true claim, such as "hexes are 300% better than Totems."
ps: both the op's joke and the trump/kim jokes/memes were not particularly hilarious but also not offensive in the slightest.
pps: the OP get's 12/10 for his posting, since he's generated 165 (ok, 140+, excluding his own replies?) posts since he started this thread. It's almost like he sprinkled a little lacquer thinner on the pile before lighting it ;)
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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The more I think about it
the more I feel pity and
sorry for you madbolter1.
My hope is that you can
free yourself of hate
and shame.
Peace be with you.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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True.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2019 - 05:47pm PT
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So it's important to you to bully and harass people... got it.
So, it's important for you to depend upon false dichotomies... got it.
There's a LOT of space on the spectrum between "bully and harass" and "not agree to use false pronouns." One person can have tremendous compassion for another, and in every way treat them respectfully and even gently, WHILE refusing to join their delusion.
And the idea that an employer has something like absolute rights to hire and fire is flatly not law. Even at-will states have laws about legitimate and illegitimate firing. So, the day that somebody is fired primarily because they refused to use a preferred pronoun is the day that a court case is going to emerge.
Meanwhile, the free-speech we enjoy in this nation is under perpetual attack, and there are LOTS of people here who would prefer us to be more like Canada or even Germany on that front. Our freedoms need continual and vigorous defense. And the surreptitious slide toward decoupling reference from reality must be called out for what it is.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Just be prepared when a majority disagrees with that.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2019 - 06:01pm PT
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If your actions create a hostile work environment for a coworker, or are based upon a protected class, which do vary from state to state, that is absolutely cause for termination.
Oh, certainly correct. It's also correct that the person DEMANDING that everybody follow along with delusional thinking is the one creating the hostile and toxic environment.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2019 - 06:03pm PT
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Just be prepared when a majority disagrees with that.
Well, it's gonna take a super-majority. We still live in a republic.
Times, they are a changing, though. I hope to be long gone by the time "utopia" takes hold of this nation!
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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My point is ,free speech is not under attack by any law or enforcement. It is under attack of public opinion. Nobody is going to jail.
If your opinion is not popular,sorry ,really.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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We have progressed ,even you have said times are a changing.
About fifty years AD.
After Dylan
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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He owns his company. He wouldn't be fired; he'd be sued. MB, what WOULD you do if a current employee asked for a meeting, explained that they'd been transitioning from male to female, and hoped they could count on your support, as the company leader?
That the employee would begin dressing in a way more readily associated with female style, and changing their name from Frank to Frankie.
How would you respond to such a scenario if presented with it?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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A company owner to their secretary: "Tell Frankie that I can't meet her at 3 as scheduled, and could we reschedule for 4:30?"
A supervisor addressing a crew: "Frank will be leading the team tomorrow at the presentation. Please get in touch with him beforehand to..."
You might be surprised at how often during the day you use personal pronouns. Can you think of ways to say the above statements without being gender-specific? Because they day may come when your supervisor, coworker, contractor, neighbor or grandchild lets you know they are not the gender you've assumed, and that they would appreciate it if you stopped referring to them with(gender-specific term that is inappropriate).
Edit: Next time you fill out a form, online or printed, and it asks you to tick Mr., Mrs., or Ms., remember that not everyone wants to be defined that way. I HATE "Ms.," and it pisses me off that the BEST option that is ever available is "Rather Not Say."
And do you realize that males aren't asked to define themselves as married or not? Only females. And if we put "Ms.," we're seen as difficult by a (shrinking, luckily) portion of the people who have to take note of that salutation.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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And the idea that an employer has something like absolute rights to hire and fire is flatly not law. Even at-will states have laws about legitimate and illegitimate firing. So, the day that somebody is fired primarily because they refused to use a preferred pronoun is the day that a court case is going to emerge.
Good luck with that court case... (no lawyer would even take it, unless you pay them $$$ upfront, just to rip you off as it's a losing cause - no one would take it on contingency).
Employment at will...guess what, you can be let go at any time and it's your loss unless you can prove you're being discriminated based on certain protected qualities (which is very hard to prove even in legitimate discrimination case) - in this case none ("free speech" in the workplace is not protected by law) . Being mean to coworkers in general will get anyone fired.
Additional dimension is hostile work environment mentioned in another post above - this creates legal liability for your employer. The offended employee can then sue your employer for damages and file EEOC complaint (which has monetary outcome, if won), unless the employer took prompt action to address hostile environment.
Unfortunately, bigoted individuals often know all this and resort to more sleek tactics.
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