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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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There are a sh#t-ton of comedians and actors from all walks of life that have performed something with blackface...should they all be ostracized?
Is the simple act itself of blackface demeaning, or is it what the person does or says while they have it on that crosses the line? Will anyone bother making the distinction?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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I must throw myself on this new pyre of self-confessed racism.
Despite my strong dislike of racism, I dressed as a "Rasta-Man" complete with "black-face" for a 1987 Halloween bar party in ski-town Ketchum Idaho.
I'm sure, although I was clueless at the time, that I was carrying out deeply aggresive attacks from my ID upon our society.
Happily, there were no blacks at the party, to grab me & ask what the fock I thought I was up to.
Actually, I thought I might pick up a white girl, since I did not have a "main-squeeze" at the time.
And yes, I know my political career is over.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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I was at the Pilot doing internet and a news story of the politician in blackface came on. I had heard about it but not seen the picture referenced, but there it was. He is costumed as a "negro" standing next to a person costumed as a Klansman.
That's crossing a line. It was clearly not intended to be a political statement castigating the KKK, but some kind of "joke." The politician deserves to be asked about this. It could have been a "teachable moment" if he had said "Yes, that was me. It was a different time and I was an ignorant cracker(in different wording). I came to understand....innapropriatenss through(conveys some story that shines a light on his enlightenment and changed outlook). But that is not what he did.
A woman watching it got in a snit and spouted some talking point probably heard on InfoWars or somewhere similar, and was like "My parents dressed me as Aunt Jemimah one Halloween when I was a kid. It wasn't that we hated blacks."
I guffawed, as the Klansman?Blackface image was still on air.
I WISH I had said "No, they were only mocking slavery and the "House Nigger Mammy."
Instead I practically shrieked "For God's sake - he's standing next to a person in a Ku Klux Klan costume? LOOK at it!!! What the hell is wrong with you?"
The lady looked up at the tv just as the image was changed, so I don't think she actually "saw it" although it WAS up when she made her statement. Still doesn't mean she "saw it" but likely she had at some point and the wrongness just didn't register on her brain.
She huffed "Well." and said something which I cannot recall but it was something about "lots of people probably wore costumes..." And my response was "And Hitler!" hoping that reference would help her "get it," but she astonished me by thinking I was now somehow agreeing with her. She agreed, "and Hitler."
I wish to othat I would have said "So, when the Hitler is standing next to someone costumed as a Bergen Belsen captive, does THAT seem like something you would support as being all in fun? For the politician whose vote you want to rely one when it comes to ethical/human rights questions?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Drawing a straight line between that woman's response and Hitler seems pretty extreme.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Come on Happie, you gotta know better than to engage in political discussions at a Pilot. Love the place, but I know the rules, When In Rome . . . .
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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And now, in addition to Texas, my New Mexico governor is pulling the National Guard
troops from our border with Mexico saying they have nothing to do but sit around,
there is no crisis, no invasion.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Apogee, it was not a straight line. My point was that dressing as a black man, in concert with a KKKer, is not an acceptable thing, no matter if you don't understand the fact. She likened it to just another Halloween costume, and I *brightly* added "or Hitler!" My intent was sarcasm, and I would have hoped even she would have heard it. But... nope.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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And really, why NOT a straight line to Hitler? The difference between Hitler and the KKK seemed to be not really much more than a matter of numbers. Do YOU want people in charge of laws who believe it is acceptable to persecute and kill subsets of their countrys population? Because that is absolutely what the KKK did.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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There are certainly apt comparisons between WWII/Hitler and race issues here in this Country. If the intent of a conversation is to inflame the divisions, then calling out those kinds of hot button comparisons is a good way to do it.
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Interesting how hundreds of thousands of us never managed to dress up in any "costume" of another race. Guess we just lacked imagination huh?
I got through life without playing Pocahontas, a Geisha, or Chaka Khan.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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canyoncat! Per your statement/rhetorical question:
Guess we just lacked imagination huh?
Not at all lad! It's because you a gud, non-racist person, who was never called to the "dark-side" for some evil & racist fun.
I'm now assuming that anyone who ever dressed as a member of another race must be a racist. I'll now have to review my limited stock of costume party photos from my youth, so I can start calling out my racist childhood friends.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2019 - 03:08pm PT
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While preachers preach of evil fates
Teachers teach that knowledge waits
Can lead to hundred-dollar plates
Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have to stand naked
An' though the rules of the road have been lodged
It's only people's games that you've got to dodge
And it's alright Ma, I can make it
-BD, 1965
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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I think the line is "What were you thinking?"
The guy here who costumed as Bob Marley likely found his music inspiring, cool. That's a far cry from costuming as a black man with a partner as KKK, or dressing your girl as Aunt Jemimah. I doubt the woman who I talked with had parents that thought. Aunt Jemimah was an actual woman with both great culinary and hospitality skills as well as a business acumen to build a multimillion dollar business
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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I don't recall ever dressing up as anyone from another race, and don't think "blackface" was something I or anyone in my social milieu would have done.
But: it's hard to remember after 40 years or so, but I'm pretty sure that at least in the 1970s, a costume such as dressing up as a sort of cliched Indian (buckskins, moccasins, feathers) would not have been looked upon as racist or inappropriate.
Times change, and we have to be careful about judging people by anachronistic standards.
Now what's the deal with the Lieutenant Governor date raping someone?
Seems like a very serious crime with a very credible accuser, much more so than the whacky stuff poor Justice Kav was smeared with.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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The primary difference that comes to mind is that this time we're talking about a Democrat who's being accused, not a strong conservative SCOTUS nominee.
I guess 'credible accuser' really depends on how you feel about the accused.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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yeah blah, the Republican was the victim so the Democrat has to be the perp. Why not just be honest and admit that none of us know the truth.
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WBraun
climber
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Why not just be honest and admit that none of us know the truth.
That is the logic of st00pid.
When you don't know you want/think/project everyone else to not know ......
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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. . . and some are stoopid and want to project that stoopid on everyone else.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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yeah blah, the Republican was the victim so the Democrat has to be the perp. Why not just be honest and admit that none of us know the truth.
You're right that we don't know the truth.
Just seems to me that Vanessa Tyson's accusations against Lt. Go. Fairfax seem much more credible than Blasey Ford's strange tale against Kav.
Tyson's allegations is very specific as to the who/what/when/where why. If anyone doesn't believe her, I'd wonder why.
No need to rehash the Blasey Ford saga, but recall she had a strange and somewhat shifting story that was effectively un-corroborated by her "witnesses," she was caught telling numerous fibs if not outright lies (she was afraid to fly, etc.).
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