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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Dec 18, 2018 - 03:51am PT
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Everyone solos for a different reason. Anyone who puts all soloists into the same motivational category (a) doesn't understand soloing and (b) loses all credibility regardless of whatever else they say.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Dec 18, 2018 - 04:35am PT
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I just keep checking in on what it is that others have to say on a rather excessive missive I saw as a crap way of gaining our attention. She puts her own issues into a fishbowl, adds a current hero, to fan the flames and now has this and other stews to point to. I hope it leads to a career for her, or a life partner if that is what she is looking for? Anyway, I think we are giving her what she is after.
Here are some of my own wasted words
in a sleepless moment I went for it, no doubt inspired by those I see here responding on this page Joe, Warner, SLR, Nah000 & Tar, all of whom I imagine sent things in the scary, unforgiving way, at some time?...
Also
the idea that solo climbing is done for anyone other than the sole participant is wrong.
For decades Soloing was whispered about among the cognoscenti.
It was not practiced for others consumption.
Slowly the rags, trying to outsell each other started to try to record the feats of daring-do.
Derek Hersey's(sp?) death put a stop to it for a while.
Before & after that many participated in fun 3rd class "trains" where as many as a dozen climbers would waltz the cutting edge of "funtime climbs"
Certainly, there are the near-mythical ascents of a few 5.12+s. As well as a few onsight.
The picture used for an advertisement, of Dean Potters ground-up on-sight 1st ascent of King Tut(?)is all I can think of off the top of my head.
Of course
John Bachar!John Rorshot(sp?) Richard H, Coz, WarnerB, Mike Head, so many others. . .
There are so many from the 20 years where my experience intersected with the cordless game at one time cheekily called 3rd classing. Derek,...
On the east coast in my own experience Scott Franklin, Russ Clune, Rich's of all kinds were all but silent about their cordless accomplishments.
This one time, someone else out by themselves for a 'stroll', who wrote the guidebooks, walked around a corner and said "Go right, not left" and did not stay to watch the outcome.
just saying . . .
now, 30 years later.
'Single File', onsight, what was I thinking? just strong & climbing.
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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Dec 18, 2018 - 05:10am PT
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Whatever else Erin's writing has achieved, it certainly has inspired us (toxic) males to literary eloquence, (even some who normally post one-liners)...
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Dec 18, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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well said
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 18, 2018 - 07:37am PT
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Everyone solos for a different reason
They are all NOT trying to do the climb ultimately?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 18, 2018 - 09:46am PT
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Well, as other news breaks: one of my favorite toxic white male personages, Keith Richards, turns 75 years old today!
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Dec 18, 2018 - 11:39am PT
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Enter women's reproductive rights as a critical player in the thesis. In third world countries where women do not have access to contraception and control over reproductive rights, there is a disproportionate amount of aggressive young men, uneducated, running around on the streets, causing trouble and getting into crime.
I'm trying to understand the connection between no birth control and unruly men. I'm a little thick. Is the connection this: women w/o birth control have less sex with men and thus men become more unruly.
If Erin had titled her story, Men are Toxic, I'm guessing the response from male climbers would have been zip.
Personally, I don't find it strange that few women are on ST. My observation is women tend to associate with other women.
This may not be high school but the clics (sp?), or tribes, we associate with are still just as real. The process of fixing nitrogen by the Haber-Bosch process led to an abundance of food. This led to tribal overpopulation. The cohesive nature of a tribe is directly proportional to it's size. When the tribe gets to big, groups of the tribe splinter off. And later there is bickering/fighting between the groups.
Female/male relationships have always been in a state of rapture/frustration and this conflict has been a source for material in literature for a couple of years or more.
Tyranny by a majority is just as unappealing to me as tyranny by a minority. I have had the liberty to do as I please. I can be PC and respectful of any group I choose to be around. My choices are discriminating (even if I'm not aware of it), that's a given. I'm not going to hang out with a group I don't feel comfortable in, that's liberty, not racism.
Currently, I'm at liberty to burn all the petroleum I want to. I'm self governing.
Here's the real rub between the left and the right---there isn't one. It's fake. There both hypocritical and their both at liberty to be so. One group is always going to try to one up the other---that's just human nature
People cry about Trump rolling back environmental protection laws but take no responsibility for their own consumerism. It's consumerism that's driving industry. Environmentally speaking, I see no consumer difference between the Dem's or Repub's. Economically speaking, they both want gobs of money w/o restrictions. The differences are purely ideological ones but the practice of both are capitalistic. Of course the laws are stacked to benefit those in power. I'm not saying it's right---it is historically human nature.
For better or worse, liberty cuts both ways, and as much as I like mine it will ultimately be our collective undoing.
The method, or trick, will look very different from anything we have seen before---Feynman.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Dec 18, 2018 - 11:53am PT
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This may be one of the more interesting and relevant threads to appear on ST in some time exemplifying generally civil, informed and critical discourse.
Apropos to the premise of white male patriarchies as the root cause of our social ills; we live in a world of identity politics and from my limited understanding, life is a much simpler enterprise if we choose to categorize others we disagree with or feel threatened by as “them” rather than “us”.
It appears the more broadly ascribed the ideologies and perceived differentiation, the greater the risk of tyrannical social constructs that deny or absolve us of our unique personal accountability or potential contribution to greater good.
Associating or implicating Alex Honnold’s accomplishment on Free Rider with this larger conversation seems like an incongruous leap of logic to me.
Just sayin’
Perry
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Dec 18, 2018 - 01:22pm PT
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Soloing free climbs is a strictly personal pursuit. The counter argument is that it's not solo if you are not alone.
Well, I guess then that I have mostly done free dualing. Maybe just that time that my partner and I thought we would do an alpine 5.4ish route and we each ended up on much harder terrain on either side of the actual route...
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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Dec 18, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
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...empowering women through control over their reproductive rights, allowing them access to higher education...
Agree with your sentiment.
Note, however, according to Wikipedia, "In 1967, women surpassed men in number of bachelor's degrees conferred in the United States, and more bachelor's degrees have been conferred on women each year since. Since 2005, the majority of degrees in each category (including master's, and doctoral) have been conferred on women in the U.S."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_education_in_the_United_States
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Dec 18, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
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When I went climbing in Jordan several years ago, it was very obvious that about 90% of the students at the country's university were women.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 18, 2018 - 03:13pm PT
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Yeah, Rattlesnake & SLR: a lot of women were voted in during the most recent midterms, so it's happening, and as you both noted, the trend has been gaining momentum for some time.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 18, 2018 - 03:26pm PT
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Proper representation is a good thing.
Real men aren’t panicking.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 18, 2018 - 05:42pm PT
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I should mention that my wife and a former girlfriend of mine (and climbing partner from the 80s) both saw Free Solo together and loved it. Lisa doesn't remember anything off-color about how Alex treated his girlfriend. She and Grace had dinner afterward, discussed the movie and none of these relational issues came up.
Lisa holds records as a champion mountain runner and Grace still climbs.
Lisa says:
For me the film was an opportunity, 100% about learning of human athletic potential and a little bit about the personality of someone capable of such a thing. Knowing that he made it [w/o dying], as an athlete myself, it helped me to relax, empathize with what he was doing, and focus on appreciating the physical and mental mastery involved.
Neither of them have read or heard anything about Erin Monahan's piece.
Haven't asked Grace about any of this Monahan stuff, just Lisa, in reflecting to her what I read. Grace just told me she really liked the movie.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 18, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
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I saw a lot of honesty in the film about the relationship between Alex and his per amour. I don’t understand their relationship, but who am I to judge.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Dec 18, 2018 - 10:40pm PT
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Took the time to read Erin’s article.
She seems pretty riled up about white men, how they treated aboriginals and a notion that Alex is merely a contemporary manifestation of “toxic (white male) masculinity”.
For the record, I’m mostly white (and mostly male) with a good measure of bow and arrow in the genetic woodpile.
Yes, Western Europeans ruthlessly pillaged the Americas and committed to a path of cultural genocide but; let’s also acknowledge that First Nations were incredibly violent towards each other.
It’s also true that most North Americans either aren’t aware or don’t want to accept the fact our countries were violently appropriated and, while we’re at it (and speaking from direct experience), an inconvenient truth is that most Canadians will tolerate almost any ethnicity other than our own First Nations.
Having said all that, I can’t for the life of me figure out how this connects to Alex and his solo of Free Rider and suggest this is a ludicrous reach on Erin’s part.
Regarding his on screen relationship with Sanni, I thought I saw more of an awkward attempt at humor than denigration but maybe that’s just my “inner whiteness” clouding my logic.
It appears to be a voluntary relationship that Sanni’s free to leave if she so chooses so I’m having a hard time seeing her as a victim of Alex’ “toxic masculinity”.
Although it will never happen, I’d really enjoy watching Erin try to sell her story to Jordan Peterson.
PB
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Dec 19, 2018 - 02:02am PT
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She needs to be slapped hard with libel, or to have some 'toxic femininity' article written about her. I bet she would not like it one bit. Too bad honnold doesnt have hungry lawyers or letigious tendencies, she seems like she leaves herself wide open for this stuff. I hope she enjoys being offended by everything, which, judging from her other articles' titles, is her style and theme.
The one thing that remains common, is the toxic. Shes toxic. Her writing is nearly unreadable. My prostate tries to fall out after more than one paragraph at a time. Very few peoples writings have accomplished this.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 19, 2018 - 04:07am PT
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It seems more a case of a woman sorting out her own identity/history and overall I think it says much more about her than Alex - not necessarily a bad thing in terms of the alternative of a completely unexamined life.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Dec 19, 2018 - 07:24am PT
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Poor dude, first the amygdala thing, then the weird intestinal flora, and now toxic masculinity.
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