Call out the NRA as a terrorist organization

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madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

May 18, 2018 - 06:53pm PT

If a person came by with an automatic weapon, he could mow them down, and all the security inside would make no difference.

I'm actually very surprised that there have not been bombings in the massive TSA lines. And then you need checkpoints around the checkpoint, and so on.

If a nut-job decides to shoot or burn or bomb or mow-over-with-van a pile of people, it is usually the sort of event that you get little or no advance warning about.

To me the greatest tragedies are when those events had LOTS of advance warning... that was ignored by the very police-state that liberals here want us all to proxy off our entire self-defense to.

Norton

climber

The Wastelands

May 18, 2018 - 06:56pm PT

“Make America great again,” the man, who was wearing a Trump hat, said when a reporter asked him what was going through his head when he found out that another school shooting had occurred.

He says he was “offering support because ‘God bless you’ would go a long ways right now for a lot of people.”

Norton

climber

The Wastelands

May 18, 2018 - 06:57pm PT

Another man felt that the guy was an absolute dumbshit moron for bringing a gun to a school shooting scene, but he also feels that prayers are the way to fix the repeat issue of mass shootings in our country.

“We need prayers,” the other man said.

YES - THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS ARE THE ANSWER !

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

May 18, 2018 - 07:25pm PT

My kids schools each have outdoor corridors and about 40 doors. Are we going to hire 40 armed guards to protect them? Or 40 metal detectors?

Oh sure we could build a tall barbed wire fence around the whole school and have one entrance, with a 30 minute wait to use the metal detector.

Or let's make sure everyone is armed. Hey that's what some people feel makes them safer. Never mind the statistics that show that people who concealed carry are actually more likely to get shot. Probably thru more risk taking and things they probably could have deescalated through talking.

Other countries do have much stricter gun laws and far fewer gun related deaths, both inner city murders and mass shootings. America has very lenient gun laws and very high rates of shootings. I don't think we need to be as strict as other countries, but I do think we need better gun control and that would reduce gun deaths.

I don't think we should throw out the 2nd amendment, and even if we did there are many millions of guns already out there. But we can do a lot better to keep them out of the hands of the wrong people. And to the people who whine about making them take background checks, or making it tougher, though still legal, to get higher capacity weapons, or making them lock up their guns, because they are willing to take the risk of carrying a loaded weapon, but don't care that you don't want to have to have to take on the risk and burden, I say I don't care, you are being unreasonable, and we are going to do this without you.

Cripes, even Trump just said we need better gun control. But I'll guess we'll see what happens when the NRA gun manufacturers lobbies congress again. They remind me of the pharmaceutical companies making billions of the opioid crisis. Sure their products are being used by the wrong people and people are dying, but it's making them money so they pressure congress to do nothing about it. Greedy bastards.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

May 18, 2018 - 07:40pm PT

Other countries do have much stricter gun laws and far fewer gun related deaths, both inner city murders and mass shootings. America has very lenient gun laws and very high rates of shootings. I don't think we need to be as strict as other countries, but I do think we need better gun control and that would reduce gun deaths.

We have the world's highest gun ownership rate by far. There isn't even a close second.

Every single country with a higher murder rate than the U.S. - there are like 80 of them - have more restrictive gun laws than we do.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

May 18, 2018 - 07:51pm PT

So, what are you saying? The tactical situation is hopeless, so EVERYBODY has to adopt hopelessness and just accept victimhood?

Or let's make sure everyone is armed.

Not one single person is suggesting that. Nobody!

Anti-gunners apparently believe that because an armed citizen can't always solve every problem, it's absolutely pointless for anybody to even have a fighting chance. Or, let's issue mini-bats and call it "arming the teachers." ROFL

I'd prefer ONE cop or armed citizen ONSITE when a school shooting starts, even though that is certainly not a panacea! At least such a person can reasonably expect to adopt some tactics that could work to shorten or even end the carnage. WAY better than mini-bats!

Never mind the statistics that show that people who concealed carry are actually more likely to get shot.

Ah, my favorite line: "statistics show." Okay, I'll play. Highly-interpreted statistics MIGHT show something, but I have no idea what, and I haven't see those statistics. You're not citing them, so is this something like "82.3% of statistics are made up?" Please ante up.

Probably thru more risk taking and things they probably could have deescalated through talking.

Please provide citations rather than speculations. I know quite a few people that carry, and not ONE of us is itching to draw the gun rather than "deescalate!" If you knew anything about the legal entanglements of even drawing, much less shooting, you'd understand HOW reluctant concealed carry holders are to actually produce the weapon.

So, here's an idea for you: You are about 6 to 9 times safer around a concealed carry holder than a cop. I don't see how that stat coheres with the shoot-happy Rambo you are caricaturing.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/8255/report-concealed-carry-permit-holders-are-most-law-aaron-bandler

Various states (Texas, Arizona, etc.) have conducted their own studies that suggest that concealed carry holders commit murder at 1/3 the rate of police officers (both, very tiny numbers).

CCW holders are nothing like you speculate.

Lituya

Mountain climber

May 18, 2018 - 08:17pm PT

Just back from Safeway after picking up a few items. The guy in line in front of me was open-carrying his 1911. Early 60s--vibe like a veteran. While I think concealed carry is a better plan, I thanked him for his vigilance. The store was a safer place because he was there.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

May 18, 2018 - 08:27pm PT

You know, this latest whack-job shooter was using a really odd-looking AR-15. I've never seen one like that before. Maybe banning "assault weapons" like AR-15s is going to be harder than initially thought.

Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, the shooter was in violation of both State and Federal laws to even possess the gun, being 17 and all. Of course, that may not have mattered much to him, being that he had determined to commit mass-murder, which is also illegal.

You know, just a thought: My guess is that, having crossed over to accepting mass-murder as a pretty good course of action, other gun-control laws just might have felt pretty irrelevant to him.

Now, if we could just ban all those pesky AR-15s, even the really weird-looking ones like this latest shooter used! We've gotta do SOMETHING, and a ban, however irrelevant, sure feels like we're doing SOMETHING. After all, banning something has a long history of working.

fear

Ice climber

hartford, ct

May 18, 2018 - 08:39pm PT

Bigger gun free zone signs too! This guy must have missed them. Maybe in multiple languages and braille.

Lituya

Mountain climber

May 18, 2018 - 08:39pm PT

...and revolvers and an 870 Remington aren't even semi-auto. Oh dear. Sounds like the narrative will have to be revised. Please make sure all parrots, dupes, drones, simpletons, schlemiels, and, of course, loyal Democrats are on board.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

May 18, 2018 - 08:53pm PT

Dad's guns?

He's gotta be one irresponsible SOB.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

May 18, 2018 - 09:01pm PT

Bigger gun free zone signs too!

Oh, you are so right!

My bad for neglecting to mention that important prophylactic!

I'm sure that if he would have KNOWN that it was a gun-free zone, he would have headed over to the park or someplace like that. Bigger signs. Maybe with a really big, red circle surrounding the AR-15 image with a big red line cutting across it.

And CNN gets into the mix by glorifying these whack-jobs and interviewing the kids. Give me a BREAK! The media makes millions on these tragedies, BY making the nut-jobs feel relevant, important, and like they matter.

By stark contrast, it should go one of two ways:

1) "An assailant that will not be named opened fire at an unnamed school today. Ten people were killed, and the assailant is in custody. No more details will be forthcoming. If you are near enough to the tragedy, then you know all you need to know already. If you are not, then you don't need to know, and you certainly don't need to know anything about the shooter, other than that he will be a total zero rotting in a cell until his demise."

2) "An assailant that will not be named opened fire at an unnamed school today. He was almost instantly killed by an armed teacher (plainclothes cop, etc.) before he could do serious harm. If you are near enough to the event, then you already know all you need to know. If not, then you don't need to know more, and we will not reveal any details about the shooter or the school."

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

May 18, 2018 - 09:04pm PT

He's gotta be one irresponsible SOB.

I am definitely sympathetic to that sentiment! Seriously.

Suing gun companies is ridiculous, but suing negligent parents is another story entirely. Criminal charges may be in order. And the conviction should make the news as a warning to others that you don't leave your gun laying around for your kid to get!

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

May 18, 2018 - 09:12pm PT

Fear, now it's my turn to call you out. You forgot another something VERY important: High-capacity "clips" (SIC).

10b4me

Social climber

Lida Junction

May 18, 2018 - 09:24pm PT

But we can do a lot better to keep them out of the hands of the wrong people.

This begs the question, who are the wrong people?

nah000

climber

now/here

May 18, 2018 - 09:45pm PT

some quick back of the envelope math according to some non-rigorous googling...

~100000 = number of public schools in the u.s.
~$550 billion = total of the state education budgets
~$70 billion = federal education budget

so say $300 000 as a minimum average to properly train and employ staff and run metal detectors, per school, per annum [obv some schools would be far more and some could be done for less]...

works out to $30 billion per year.

or an approximate 5% increase in the state and federal education budgets.

or to put it in perspective: the cost of the iraq war from 2003-2010 is most often accepted to have had a cost in the range of $1.1 trillion or $140 billion per year during those years...

aka: the money is there if this was made a priority.

WBraun

climber

May 18, 2018 - 10:14pm PT

St00pid Americans think they can buy intelligence.

Since materialistic America is clueless to consciousness then they are forced by Providence to suffer the consequences of their st00pid materialistic choices ......

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

May 18, 2018 - 10:16pm PT

The countries that have higher murder rates are mainly third world countries in Central and South America, Africa, the Caribbean.

When you like at countries with similar economies like Canada, France, Finland were about about 80 countries ahead of them.

So, what are you saying? The tactical situation is hopeless, so EVERYBODY has to adopt hopelessness and just accept victimhood?

Why ask me what I'm saying if you're going to put words in my mouth. I'm saying it's ridiculous to think we should protect most schools in America with armed guards or metal detectors. For inner city schools that are one big building with one main entrance, in high crime areas, sure it makes sense. But to think we could do that to my town's rural schools is a joke. A shooter with a high power military rifle could kill a single armed guard and then start his rampage. Armed guards are not the answer. I'm not saying they couldn't help, but I think there are far more effective and less expensive ways to address school mass shootings.

Anti-gunners apparently believe that because an armed citizen can't always solve every problem, it's absolutely pointless for anybody to even have a fighting chance.

As I've said over and over I'm a gun owner and personally believe people should be able to own most types of guns available. But they should be better controlled. So I don't know where you get "anti-gunners" when you are addressing my post. The problem is you are willing to sacrifice everyone else's, who doesn't want to carry, safety so it's easy for you to have your "fighting chance". Sorry but you can deal with a few more hoops and still have your fighting chance.

I'm not going to look up the statistics on firearms and safety again with the chance their would fall on deaf ears, if you carry I suggest you look them up yourself because it may give you some insight. I just remember than when I was considering concealed carry a few years ago I did a lot of research on the subject. I can't remember where I saw it but there was a well designed study that showed people who concealed carry were more likely to be shot or killed by gunfire (I can't remember which). They did not have data to determine why that is, but yes speculated that possibly people take greater risks, are less likely to work things out without violence, or maybe they spend time in higher crime areas (or maybe all).

If you knew anything about the legal entanglements of even drawing, much less shooting

Again I looked into concealed carry and researched these very things, so why do you assume I don't know anything?

I don't see how that stat coheres with the shoot-happy Rambo you are caricaturing.

I never said anything of the sort. I did basically call out people for being selfish pricks for fighting any new gun control laws so they can easily get the guns they want, while leaving kids in schools and people who don't want to carry out to dry. So if you want to address that point that I actually made, have at it.

You are about 6 to 9 times safer around a concealed carry holder than a cop.

No, that link says cops commit crimes 6-9 times more than CCW holders. I'd feel safer around a uniformed cop in a bad neighborhood than a CCW holder.

I looked into the CCW process in California and specifically in my county since it varies. I actually think our process is great (although overly expensive, but that's govt. for ya) and have no problem with CCW. I don't know what it's like in other states. In the CA application you have to show good moral character, good cause, completed a training course, haven't been convicted of a felony, haven't been diagnosed as mentally ill, haven't lost your gun rights, have to be at least 21 years old. I have no problem with CCW if someone passes all that. I actually disagree with the leeway they have by county where some counties are "will issue" if you meet the requirements and some are "may issue", where the sheriff can still deny you just cause they feel like it, that's B.S. What I'd like to see is that type of robust process applied to other firearms like "assault" weapons (you know what I mean, high powered rifles with quickly change magazines), and maybe even a more streamlined process for handguns in general.

CCW holders are nothing like you speculate.

It's you who are speculating.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

May 18, 2018 - 10:19pm PT

BTW I like all the condescending, passive aggressive statements above. Countdown until those same posters complain about people on the other side not wanting a productive debate..