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nah000
climber
now/here
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Sep 12, 2017 - 09:05pm PT
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but how could one harass?
when that there is a slightly californian styled, but yet still, greek god?
a greek god, with a subtle but sublime smile... a smile that makes mind reading irrelevant... because the smile screams forth to the viewer the thought of the greek god... the sole thundering thought that he thinks as he peers lovingly into his own reflection electronically displayed in the glass of the selfie phone:
now that... that is the definition of handsome...
;)
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Sep 12, 2017 - 09:38pm PT
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TW: uppity? maybe, sometimes...
know everything? if knowing that you don't know is knowing everything? then again, maybe... :)
peace... and to all a good night...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Sep 12, 2017 - 10:36pm PT
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"Wow, warbler that picture... Only guy on the forum that can out-dewshe-bag burchey."
Well, you're forgetting about Bragman.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Sep 12, 2017 - 10:51pm PT
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Dude! We were laughing our asses off at you!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Sep 12, 2017 - 11:01pm PT
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That is not the k38 I remember. Federales rousted me with the business end of an automatic weapon
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 13, 2017 - 09:02am PT
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Since this thread seems to now be home for some intelligent discussion, here's something I like to hear your thoughts on.
This morning, on my bike ride to work, I was stopped when the drawbridge I have to cross opened up to let a barge through. Not much to do except stand around mindlessly with all the other cyclists. Looking at them, I realized they were almost all men. By the time we were able to start riding again, there were nineteen of us, of which seventeen were men, and only two were women.
Thinking about it, I realized that was pretty normal. I've been bike commuting in Seattle for fifteen years now, and, while there are some women on two wheels, most riders are men. The proportion on the bridge -- 80:20 -- seemed about normal.
Why is that? What puts men on bikes and keeps women off them?
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Sep 13, 2017 - 09:10am PT
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Ghost- The glass ceiling....?
Warbler- My grandma wants your phone number.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 13, 2017 - 09:15am PT
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Interesting Ghost....I see about the same ratio but REVERSED on Standup Paddle Boards.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sep 13, 2017 - 09:16am PT
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Ghost, I used to bike nine miles each way on my commute. Did that for over four years in the mid-seventies on San Pablo in Richmond/Berkeley. ALL of the other bike commuters I saw or met were men. Not a single female rider in the bunch.
I put it down to the fact that women sweat like men do, and sweat does nothing good for clothing, make-up, and hair. Unless there's a locker room, what's a gal to do after a lengthy commute ride?
You have come up with a good darned question, but I cannot come up with another single good reason for the disparity.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 13, 2017 - 09:19am PT
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F--"Warbler- My grandma wants your phone number."
LOL .....
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cat t.
climber
california
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Sep 13, 2017 - 09:24am PT
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n her humble opinion in cycling far to many women for whatever reasons measure themselves against the "pack" and not really hang it out there. Sure they may win a race but its a rare bird that would attack on a hill and put in distance -most of the time is a pack right to the final 2 k then turns into a sprint.
This is an interesting observation (though I don't think it indicates agreement with KW's premise, if only because of the inclusion of "for whatever reasons")
Why is that? What puts men on bikes and keeps women off them?
The following is just idle speculation, but--
I've noticed a terrible habit amongst the women I bike, climb, and do science with: we tend to apologize excessively. Opinions come framed as "I guess this is a stupid question, but [brilliant insight]." Climbing and biking abilities are massively understated with tentative qualifications. I think it comes from this fear of being seen as the "representative" of our sex, and in moments when we should be single-mindedly focused, this nasty little thought worms its way in: "if you can't do it perfectly, it's because women CAN'T do it."
This is a thought pattern that is completely destructive, of course. It's a paralyzing thought: "if you aren't the best, you aren't allowed to try." And yeah, I'm sure the thought initially arose because we exist in a male-dominated society, but ultimately it's up to an individual to break out of that holding pattern. I try to stop myself when I catch myself thinking that way (though it still happens). I try to discourage the behavior when I observe it in my female friends. But it remains hard to shake the uncomfortable feeling that, as the only woman in a group, you are somehow responsible for proving the worth of women.
EDIT Oh sh#t, I did it in my own post!! Did I really have to precede the whole thing with "oh this is just idle speculation, but--" This isn't idle speculation, this is a strong opinion about a maladaptive behavior, and y'all should consider that even though YOU are not sexist, we (we being women) have internalized a lot of other people's hostility toward women over a lifetime.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 13, 2017 - 09:27am PT
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Grandmoms work for me!
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Sep 13, 2017 - 09:41am PT
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Funny, the ratio of bike commuters here in MSO-MT that I see is about even. Same in the winter. However, on the intown MTB trails I see more ladies and on the outa town MTB trails I see nobody.
I think today women are just generally getting after it/out more than in the past. This a good thing and I love my lady-friend partners in outdoor pursuits, makes for enriching conversation and interesting perspectives, at least in my experience..
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c wilmot
climber
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Sep 13, 2017 - 09:51am PT
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Our bike lane symbols portray a male riding a bike. This was done to reinforce the patriarchal notion that riding a bike is for males only. Our male dominated society has come up with all sorts of clever ways to keep women down
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Sep 13, 2017 - 10:47am PT
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Doesn't mean shizt after they leave home and are on their own.
I had the pleasure of meeting Tami's son recently. She clearly did a fine job with his upbringing.
Warbler and frostback, am wishing you similar good fortune with your kids!
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
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Sep 13, 2017 - 11:02am PT
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Below is a real male Warbler in breeding plumage looking sharp for the ladies, no creepy selfies here.
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L
climber
Tiptoeing through the chilly waters of life
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Sep 13, 2017 - 11:15am PT
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Why is that? What puts men on bikes and keeps women off them?
Ghost--It's not necessarily that women aren't on bikes...it's that we generally have to be more cautious about when and where we ride.
For instance, back when I lived in Santa Monica, I'd ride from Topanga Canyon up the PCH (Pacific Coast Highway) to Point Mugu and back again. It's 38 miles one way/76 RT. It was one of my favorite weekend pastimes (unless I was climbing) and I did it alone because a solitary ride along the Pacific ocean, with waves breaking and dolphins leaping, fed my soul.
Every single time I rode my bike on that highway, I was harassed by male cyclists. The group would surround me and start with the comments:
"You shouldn't be riding alone."
"You better have sunscreen on cause your top isn't covering enough of you."
"Don't you have a boyfriend to ride with you?"
"C'mon, you can ride with us--it's dangerous to ride alone."
Those were the comments directed at me.
The ones I heard as the pack rode away were always the same:
"Nice ass! I'd do her!"
"Damn, did you see the muscles on her back? I'd like to hump that filly!"
"I could make her beg, I bet."
"Now that would be a good f%k! Hahaha!"
This was on the PCH, on a Saturday or Sunday, during the day, with regular traffic buzzing by. The only "danger", as far as I could see, was from some idiot motorist not paying attention...or from these packs of cyclists.
Your commuting route sounds safe enough--if you're a man. But as a woman, it might not appear the same. Especially if darkness falls during the commute.
Speaking as an "objectified" person, I would say this might be one of the reasons you see more men than women commuting via bikes. Safety issues.
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cat t.
climber
california
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Sep 13, 2017 - 11:57am PT
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Every single time I rode my bike on that highway, I was harassed by male cyclists.
Holy crap, L, those comments are atrocious. How recent is this? The stuff I hear around here (SF Bay) is significantly less terrifying ("I didn't expect YOU to pass me!" and boob-comments, mostly).
Here's an interesting podcast in which the men interviewed genuinely believe that women like these types of comments. The interviewer tries quite hard to convince them otherwise, quoted below:
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/603/transcript
OK. So here's a thought that I think maybe hasn't occurred to you. There's quite a lot of violence against women, right? Like, we understand that. One of the things that happens when you feel afraid as a chick, and you're just walking around and a guy slaps your ass, is you don't know if he intends it as a compliment or if he's actually really violent.
And so something that we do, something that we've learned to do, is to not reject men. One of the strategies we adopt is laugh, smile, be collegiate, be appeasing, be non-confrontational. Right? So I want to suggest to you that it's possible that a lot of the smiles and laughs that you see on the faces of the women who you slap or compliment are ways for them to get out of the situation rather than ways of thanking you.
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