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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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The comfort of indoor climbing is conducive to female participation too.
Sick foot/mouth match Warbs!
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WBraun
climber
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What's all this talk gonna do????
The stoopid women are still stepping out into the street staring at their stoopid cell phones right in front of cars without even looking.
Every day I see this stoopid sh!t going on.
WTF is on those things to make em such moron zombies .....
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Thread drift seems ok since we've kicked the Cedar business to the curb.
Ed brings up a good point about gathering data per risk management. Problem is, you don't have a one-size-fits-all norm per a "typical" climber to whom risk, skill, mental factors and so forth can be wildly different qualities.
They can also be of different amplitude with the same climber at different times. The fluid nature of mental and physical prowess make risk management a fluid drill as well. That's where judgement comes in, and I mean judgement beyond the physical facts.
For example, I always had way more explosive strength then endurance, and I always did my best climbing in Yosemite after having been there for at least 1.5 mos. Maybe 40-50 routes. Then my head was into it as well. Once I knew I could stave off a death pump, I'd go for stuff I normally wouldn't consider. Thing is, I'd calculate the risk on both internal and external readings. And the adventure always started for me when the odds of success were less than perfect.
I learned a simple equation that worked well as a kind of rule of thumb: The factors were difficulty and consequences. Both usually exist on a sliding scale per trad climbs (not nearly so on sport climbs). I would generally not try and press both issues at once. If the climbing and/or logistics (crucial on multiday climbs) was near what I felt I could do, the route had to have good pro and I had to feel super fit. If the pro was bomber and the logistics harmless, I'd go for it no matter how fit I was. But I rarely tried to push my limits when the logistics and the safety were sketchy. The only person I ever saw who pushed both technical and safety limits to his absolute max whenever possible was Tobin Sorensen - and it killed him.
So it was about knowing my limits. You have to exceed them to know them and I'm grateful for the very few times I pushed both technical and security issues. And made it out whole. You have to choose your shots, but you have to take a few here and there even when the odds are against you. I only had to make a few lucky escapes and those are my most memorable moments.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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The majority of the most legendary ascents in climbing, outside of sport, are remembered by the risk taken and the challenges to success.
Do I get credit for soloing a route in the Cascades in winter the day after giving a pint of blood?
I guarantee you'll only do that once. ;-)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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OK, I guess that was also 'giving blood'. :-)
Somebody should take some samples from the insides of that thing. I bet it would qualify for EPA Superfund Site status. The next ebola resides there, no doubt.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Warbler, were you on the rag when you did Generator? :(
"Glad I didn't wear my booty shorts. I'd have sh#t them by now."
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Hi Susan, what do you think about Erin Monahan's article?
Hi Alexey. I wish I could add more but I'm on an extensive road trip with limited connectivity. I do have some thoughts about the judgmental attitude toward the author. Also it's hard for me to know her experiences that lead her to such strong emotions. I'm generations away from her experiences and older women start to filter things differently.
I do think we will have hit stride when the phrase " he's just one of the girls" has the same resonance as "she's just one of the guys". Not likely for a very long time
The thread has turned and when I have connectivity it is an interesting read! I'm enjoying it.
Susan
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2017 - 11:27am PT
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The thread has turned and when I have connectivity it is an interesting read! I'm enjoying it.
Which part, where Warbler pretends to be an endocrinologist or Hartouni pretends to be a climbing coach?
Only so many times can I switch definitions and chase semantics before I'm bored of reading cherry picked anecdotes and vague ideas of what makes a real bad ass climber.
Anyway, if its fun for you, go for it. zzz
more T -> more bulk -> less strength to weight ratio
I also hear if you put a tooth under your pillow a fairy comes and takes it.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2017 - 03:50pm PT
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Probably Susan is referring to the types of judgements made about EM - as, if she was someone not who she is, would the comments about her be what they were? Kinda weird thing to tiptoe around but I agree, the internet is a pretty shitty place to women generally speaking.
That being said, she can still be wrong, AND people can treat her super shitty. Last night was a UFC event, a female champ (and open lesbian) pulled out last minute due to a minor illness. It's really hard to sift through the bullshit and get a good idea about where to blame, and if any, because her identity means that idiots are more than happy to pile on. And, like EM, the UFC champ has a very confrontational style, so unfortunately people are taking that into account when it comes down to dolling out ire. Dozens of male champions have pulled out of fights, often with their personalities and track records playing a major role in the fan reception of those decisions, but much less so than in this instance.
EM likely has the same thing going on, where there are legitimate points that can be made both on the message and its delivery but the noise clutters it and focuses people to go down side trails that claim sweeping generalizations that ultimately go nowhere.
See: last 150some odd posts
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c wilmot
climber
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“I think that it was 90 percent mental and maybe 10 percent physical,” White said. “She probably didn’t feel right. I think a lot of fighters have had times where they don’t feel right, and then we’ve had guys who are outright sick. ... These situations arise all the time. I don’t know if I’ve ever had a situation like today, though, where she was physical capable of fighting.
This is what Dana white had to say about Amanda Nunes...
It's amazing what people will make up to justify their agenda
criticism towards women is not always sexist in nature...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2017 - 04:24pm PT
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This is what Dana white had to say about Amanda Nunes...
Jose Aldo has a bruised rib, Jeremy Stephans WILL fight tonight, Demetrius Johnson has to fight TJ or we dismantle the 125 decision... keep in mind Dana's track record and how he loves to throw other people under the bus. A good promoter would have said something along the lines of "Amanda is so tough, she's never pulled out of a fight and is ready to go so it must be terrible for her to have to pull out." Nobody truly knows but Amanda if she could have fought, and how hard, so the rest of us are coming up with narratives that fit our agenda.
If you don't think there is an issue with sexism/racism in UFC fans go ahead and pull up any 'ol article on Amanda and start reading the comments. I dare ya.
I don't mean to exonerate or condemn Amanda, only to look at things objectively - hard to do when we have our preconceived notions and ideas, eh? She likely decided that whatever drop in athletic ability she would expereince based on how she felt, and how antibiotics that were prescribed to her would make her fee, and decided throwing away her career for a loss isn't worth it. Many champs make that decision (Faber, McGregor, Joanna) but most do not. Jon Jones didn't fight Chael at 150, Cormier and Aldo pulled out injured with things other fighters have battled through, and we gave them the benefit of the doubt with a small amount of ire. Do we give Amanda the benefit of the doubt? And where exactly does our judgement on that come from? For each fan it is different, and for some they just kind of will always hate her because of who she is, even in 2017. Go figure.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2017 - 04:26pm PT
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I do have some thoughts about the judgmental attitude toward the author.
My wife read her piece that kicked all this off and said, roughly "She needs to get a life. And a vibrator". I spit beer on the coffee table.
nawmean
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Anyway, if its fun for you, go for it. zzz
Silverbacks chest thumping is frequently entertaining.
Susan
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Silverbacks chest thumping is frequently entertaining
It's also a clear signal to lesser pretenders to keep their distance.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2017 - 04:38pm PT
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Silverbacks
Woulda gone with Bonobos but OK
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cat t.
climber
california
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Silverback made more sense; bonobos are matriarchal, and they use sex rather than violence to address conflict :)
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Oh yeah. Those sexy Bonobos! How'd I miss that. Hitachi time I guess. ;)
Susan
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2017 - 08:06pm PT
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Is that your dad he looks great for his age
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2017 - 08:27pm PT
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The commission is monetarily incentivized to allow her to fight, and I recommend putting yourself in her shoes. She does not "owe" us to fight if she isn't well, even if other champs fought with broken ribs/hidden cuts / staph / you name it.
This is more proof of what I mean that we don't allow her the benefit of the doubt we allow others. I would not trust a commission on the safety of athletes, unfortunately, as even (or especially) NSAC has a poor track record with clearing unfit fighters.
Again, I don't leave out the possibility that what white and no one else affiliated with a position that could make that call are correct and she was possibly 'fine' (not sure what fine is when you are diagnosed with chronic sinusitis.
What my point is, is that fans feel she needs to be at blame when there is no clear blame. It isn't cut and dry. Why does she have to be a bad person? What narrative does that fit?
I've been around mma for a long time, have many friends that fought some even in the UFC. Look out for your athletes who put their health on the line for your enjoyment, even if they are gay brown women. I know that's asking a lot.
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