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Gene
Social climber
Two hours away
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Feb 23, 2004 - 09:28pm PT
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Is belief in God and belief in evolution mutually exclusive?
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Jody
Mountain climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2004 - 09:41pm PT
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Yes.
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Gene
Social climber
Two hours away
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Feb 23, 2004 - 09:51pm PT
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Thank you, Jody, for the unambiguous response.
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Gene
Social climber
Two hours away
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Feb 23, 2004 - 09:58pm PT
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Jody,
Isn't God more interested in where I'm going with my life than wherever I may have come from? Does God value the retrospective more the prospective?
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Jody
Mountain climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2004 - 10:11pm PT
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"Thank you, Jody, for the unambiguous response."
You're welcome Gene. Are you saying that most of my responses ARE ambiguous?:)
Yes, God does care more about where we are going than where we came from. Besides, he KNOWS where we came from, he CREATED us.:)
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Dave
Mountain climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2004 - 10:42pm PT
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"Is belief in God and belief in evolution mutually exclusive?"
"Yes"
Why?
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Jody
Mountain climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2004 - 10:51pm PT
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Gene,
A God-guided process isn't what modern scientists mean by "evolution". They are insistent that evolutionis an unguided and mindless process. they think we are here by accident, not by plan. The Darwinian theory doesn't say that God created slowly, it says that naturalistic evolution is the creator.
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Gene
Social climber
Two hours away
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Feb 23, 2004 - 11:00pm PT
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Why exinction of many of God's perfect creations?
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Dave
Mountain climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2004 - 12:17am PT
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Let's break down each of these statements and analyze them, shall we?
"A God-guided process isn't what modern scientists mean by "evolution". "
Of course not. Science neither confirms nor denies the existence of a supreme being. 95% of Americans believe in a god of one sort or another - this extends to the scientific fields. There is nothing wrong with this statement, though you imply otherwise.
"They are insistent that evolutionis [sic] an unguided and mindless process."
Here you imply that Evolution is guided by an intelligent supreme being. So which is it? Did God create the universe and everything in it, or is he guiding the evolutionary process?
"they think we are here by accident, not by plan."
Actually, natural selection, adaptaion, mutation, and the other pathways through which species deal with their environments can hardly be called accident.
"The Darwinian theory doesn't say that God created slowly, it says that naturalistic evolution is the creator."
Again, science, theories, etc. neither confirm nor deny a god. I'm not going to go over the scientific method (again? - think it was discussed once in this thread) because you should have learned that in grade school. BTW, Darwin very much belived in a Creator. Read Origin of the Species lately?
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Jody
Mountain climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2004 - 03:42am PT
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"Here you imply that Evolution is guided by an intelligent supreme being"
Where did you pull that one from? Huh?
" BTW, Darwin very much belived in a Creator. Read Origin of the Species lately? "
Yes I have, and you are wrong.
Charles’s thinking and writing on the subject of evolution and natural selection caused him to reject all the religious influences in his life. His son Francis recalled him as saying, ‘I never gave up Christianity until I was forty years of age.’(Cited from Adrian Desmond and James Moore, Darwin, Michael Joseph Ltd, London, 1991, p. 658.)
Sir Julian Huxley, said, ‘Darwin's real achievement was to remove the whole idea of God as the creator of organisms from the sphere of rational discussion.'(Cited from William R. Fix, The Bone Peddlers, Macmillan, New York, 1984)
Darwin referred to the Origin as ‘my accursed book’ and seems to have thought of himself as a ‘Devil’s Chaplain’.(Cited from Adrian Desmond and James Moore, Darwin, Michael Joseph Ltd, London, 1991)
No, I don't believe Darwin believed in a Divine Creator.
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Jody
Mountain climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2004 - 08:31pm PT
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"Or you trust in the scientific method.
The same scientific method that has designed lasers, space travel, microwaves, the Hubble space telescope,computers,the theory of relativity, the law of gravity, string thoeory, quantum mechanics, genetics, medicine,cancer drugs,airplanes,CT scans, MRI's,computers, and a million other things."
Not a smart statement. Nowhere close to the same science. BTW, that took some intelligence to invent all those things. Intelligence that evolved from primordial soup, or intelligence that was designed that way? You dropped down in the gutter here and started the part about not being Christian like, etc. Don't drag me down there with you. Evolution has not been confirmed by any type of science...it is more a philosophy than anything else. Look at it, based on nothing but assumptions and "given enough time" anything can happen. Science is that which can be observed, evoulution has never ben observed, so don't call it science.
" demonizes people like Carl Sagon, Isaac Asimov and many others for disagreeing with there fundamentalist agenda..."
And you call anyone who believes in creation a wacko, who is demonizing who? there are plenty of non-Christians who don't subscribe to the theory of evolution, yet you automatically lump all Creationists into the wacko Christian category...not very tolerant of you.
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Jody
Mountain climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2004 - 08:37pm PT
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BTW, I don't debunk science, just the misuse of it to claim evolution is fact. That was a very angry post Riley, why do you and Dave get so angry about it. Someone doesn't swallow your unproven theory about the origin of life and you call their God an old geezer blowing eternity out his ass? I would have expected better from you.
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Dave
Mountain climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2004 - 09:03pm PT
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"Evolution has not been confirmed by any type of science."
"why do you and Dave get so angry about it."
If this is still what you think after all this, I'll finish this right where I started:
You're an idiot.
I'm going home.
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Jody
Mountain climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2004 - 09:07pm PT
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Thanks for the love Dave, I am sorry you are so gullible as to think that actual science proves evolution. Even so, I don't think you are an idiot and neither is Riley. You both are just misinformed.:)
BTW, nice M.O., Anybody that doesn't believe your way of thinking is an idiot! Nice...good way to build up credibility.
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crotch
climber
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Feb 24, 2004 - 09:21pm PT
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-Science is that which can be observed,
False. Science is a process. The basis of your argument is flawed, thus your conclusion meaningless.
-evoulution has never ben observed,
-so don't call it science.
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Jody
Mountain climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2004 - 10:03pm PT
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Webster's:
Science
1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws.
science fiction
a form of fiction which draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc.
I would say the latter describes evolution pretty well.
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2004 - 11:17pm PT
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Can this thread please die now? It's been beaten to death.
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Neil
Trad climber
Bend, Oregon
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Feb 24, 2004 - 11:41pm PT
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I kind of like the thread. Keep going, all!
Neil
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Terry
climber
Spokane
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Feb 25, 2004 - 12:32am PT
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Its been a very intersting thread to follow. I can understand why Jody would passionately argues for creationism - He believes passionately in God. But why do Dave and others passionately argue for evolution? They believe passionately in random chance??
In the end I prefer God. If you believe in God and he doesn't exist you've lost nothing. If you don't believe in God and he does exist...
And I still have a hard time believing that something as complex and diverse as life somehow evolved from pond scum. Seems like one hell of leap of faith to me!
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Dave
Mountain climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 25, 2004 - 01:01am PT
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"Anybody that doesn't believe your way of thinking is an idiot!"
Look at the two lines I quoted. That's not why I said that.
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