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BobSFrankNose
Social climber
Seattle
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Nov 15, 2016 - 04:09pm PT
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No problem Splater, I completely understand. If you and others keep saying 'the science is settled' long enough, and attacking anyone who raises a question with the 'your stupid' factor - you think eventually everyone will agree with you - if anyone is left even interested.
The article mentioned was from Science and also published in Nature - your standards in this thread of what should be looked at as the gold standard. It was not from the 70's, but 1989. It was peer reviewed! It was bullshit! And they admitted it. Just one example.
And, just by you calling 'ClimateGate' fake - does not sweep all of the readable evidence under a rug. I am sure you wish it could. Perhaps you could explain why is it fake, or just a fraction of the conflicts it presents of maybe exaggerating or overstating a few peoples desired and paid for outcomes.
I like your word 'reason'. Reason seems to be based on empirical evidence, and (as you should know) empirical evidence is based on verifiable observations and experience - not theory.
So, we have about .74 degrees shift for about 100 years of data after the fact, and we have maybe less than a half of a degree of shift (warmer or cooling - experts can't quite decide) in the last 16 years, AND nothing you predicted in a catastrophic way came true.
Fact!
Give it up pal. It ain't working for your prophets of doom.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 15, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
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Some good reading here for those who still have their head in the sand. Not that it will make any difference to them.
Although scientific opinion on climate change is that human activity is extremely likely to be the primary driver of climate change,[12][13] the politics of global warming have been affected by climate change denial, hindering efforts to prevent climate change and adapt to the warming climate.[14][15][16] Those promoting denial commonly use rhetorical tactics to give the appearance of a scientific controversy where there is none.[17][18]
...In his final chapter, Gordin turns to the new phase of pseudoscience, practiced by a few rogue scientists themselves. Climate change denialism is the prime example, where a handful of scientists, allied with an effective PR machine, are publicly challenging the scientific consensus that global warming is real and is due primarily to human consumption of fossil fuels. Scientists have watched in disbelief that as the evidence for global warming has become ever more solid, the deniers have been increasingly successful in the public and political arena. … Today pseudoscience is still with us, and is as dangerous a challenge to science as it ever was in the past.[126]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial
Curt
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 15, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
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Turns out more folks are more concerned in calling it a hoax than trying to negate it.
More pipelines,fracking and lets burn some more coal.
Let's make America great again.
Maybe we can get some Acid Rain going again.
The Chief would call me a hipocrite......lol.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 15, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
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Again, those who either deny science or don't understand it will probably be unfazed, but...
Curt
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Nov 15, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
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that warming stall between 1946-1980 is attributed to increasing aerosol emissions (which cool the climate). In the 1980's we decreased man made aerosol and temperate increases started taking off
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 15, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
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We should definitely add some aerosols.hs
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 15, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
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The cause has been established, Curt.
What do you DO about it?
Sometimes I think you guys would rather argue with each other over the cause than to actually do anything.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 15, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
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The answer to the second two questions are yes, to a degree. Could be I understand radiation more than you. But I am not here to argue from authority or to list my qualifications. That's not how ideas are settled.
Anyway, I was making a point about the so-called greenhouse effect, not the physics of radiation. It is a widely misunderstood effect, and much larger than commonly thought.
Your errors were in the atmospheric science, not the radiation, as I explained. But they are common errors. I am sorry that I offended you by pointing that out. Peace.
Jon Nelson, in your attack on Malemute you do a poor job of explaining where he is wrong for the rest of us. You should try harder. When Malemute first mentioned the effect the of the cloud he was correct, regardless of mentioning the blanket. The water vapor in the cloud creates more of a localized warming effect that just the co2 in the atmosphere that it is located in. What you say about calling it the radiation effect is fine, but the blanket is fine too in describing an increased localized effect because of the way a cloud (H2O molecules ) temporarily adds to the effect of the CO2 that is already there. The word CLOUD for information storage is not a great analogy either, but we all understand what it means. Why the animosity? So, do you think Humans are causing the climate change and warming?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 15, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
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Chas ,thanks , I live off the grid and only burn biodiesel,thanks for being like The Chief.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Nov 15, 2016 - 05:59pm PT
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People aren't more concerned about it because we all need gas fueled cars to commute and earn a living...Any bad news that goes against the grain of earning a living is easily dismissed especially when the people supplying the oil calm the consumers fear by telling them climate change is a hoax...Kind of like the tobacco companies telling their addicts that smoking doesn't cause cancer...
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BobSFrankNose
Social climber
Seattle
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Nov 15, 2016 - 06:09pm PT
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O.K., Curt, I'll play along with the; 'type in google what you want to hear, search for it' and then cut and paste to supertopo!
Wow, Look what I found. See facts back up what I am saying. Even the New York Times in reporting (the paper that said yesterday, sorry to its reader for lying, and they will try to be more honest in the future).
As a long time legal analyst and attorney, I am only interested in the demonstrable facts, eye witnesses, and after the fact outcomes. Each side can drum up their own expert witness to testify complete opposites - and each sound so damn smart and convincing.
I'm not effected by emotion, or religion, or trumpisms. No interest in any of them. Are you?
My questions - still unanswered - were honest questions about hyperbole, exaggerations and false alarms, and if some might have skin in the game or money rewards for their opinions and alarms they were setting off.
Still don't know, as everyone just circle jerks each other with new cut and paste unreadable junk, and calls the honest inquirer the fool.
But, if anyone is just slightly confused or newly skeptical, and you wonder why all this hysteria of global warming and six feet of water coming to Miami could be true - google the 'CCX', 'cap and trade' reasons, Gore's company called 'GMI', 'Goldman Sachs Asset Management', and the trillions of dollars out there for the taking.
I'm again bored with this!
Posted on September 5, 2016 by John Hinderaker in Climate
Will 2016 Be the Hottest Year On Record?
“On record” meaning since the 1880s, i.e., the end of the Little Ice Age. The year is a long way from being over, but I will venture a guess that the alarmists will claim 2016, when in the books, was the hottest year evah. One problem, as we have pointed out many times, is that the books have been cooked.
The keeper of the U.S. temperature records is the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), which is paid to be on board with global warming hysteria. How does NOAA stir up alarm? By changing the historic temperature record to make the past look cooler and the present warmer. Icecap explains:
NOAA shows July temperatures increasing at 1.0F per century since 1895, with 2012 tied with 1936 as the hottest July.
It looks like there could be a little global warming going on, right? But the temperatures reported by NOAA are not the ones that were actually recorded. This is what the same graph looks like, before NOAA’s “adjustments.”
Oops. No global warming. Icecap quantifies the impact of NOAA’s “adjustments.”
The actual raw temperature data they use to generate their graph, shows one tenth as much warming from 1895 to 2016, with 1901, 1936 and 1934 as the hottest years.
If 1895 is removed, there is no warming at all.
***
NOAA creates this warming by massively cooling the past. They got rid of the hot 1901 by cooling it 2.13 degrees. They cooled 1936 by by 1.13 degrees and cooled 1934 by 1.11 degrees. That is what it took to elevate 2012 to the hottest July.
Emphasis added. So NOAA’s “adjustments” increase global warming by 1,000%. Gosh! Why might they do that?
The claimed warming trend in the US is completely fake, and is altered by people at NOAA who are being paid to push the global warming agenda. Before they were paid to push anthropogenic warming, the very same people at NOAA (i.e. Tom Karl) knew that there was no US warming.
That was reported by the New York Times, before the Times understood how global warming hysteria could be used to augment the power of government.
These NOAA data relate to the U.S., which comprises only a tiny percentage of the Earth’s surface. But, as Icecap points out, the U.S. data are critical to the warmist cause:
The US makes up less than 10% of the land surface, but contains the majority of the high quality long term temperature monitoring stations for this planet. The global surface temperature record is a farce, which is why the US data is so important.
As I have said many times before, catastrophic anthropogenic global warming alarmism is not an honest scientific mistake. It is a fraud, perpetrated for the usual reasons–money and power.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Nov 15, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
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^^^ >>Bobstroll
100% troll nonsense idiocy garbage fake
Why did you start a new account just to post this tripe?
How much are you being paid by Koch, ALEC, Heartland?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Nov 15, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
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Splater...Thanks for the info but the people who need to read this are too busy celebrating Trumps victory and loading their Razors , dirtbikes , and portable honda generators onto their 2016 , bitchin , 10MPG Cummins Diesel ...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 15, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
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Robert L writes:
" Stop eating mass-farmed cattle
Ride your bike and walk for transport whenever possible. Otherwise catch public transport. Otherwise hold-off travel till more can be achieved in the one trip. Otherwise car pool.
Don't buy anything that is designed to fail or go out of fashion within 2-years "
If you look around the planet, the countries where the people do those things - like China, India - have the worst environmental problems.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 15, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
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^^^
100% troll nonsense idiocy garbage fake
Fake alright. We have a relatively honest conversation going here with everyone else. It's easy to spot the trolls isn't it? He is only bored because he knows zilch about the subject. I was going to say the same about him 'working' for the other side.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 15, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
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Good post Chaz.
Mchale as well.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 15, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
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The Zen of spotting trolls!
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Nov 15, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
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Let's make America great again.
Maybe we can get some Acid Rain going again.
The Chief would call me a hipocrite......lol.
I want my dioxins back.
Scratch that. I want Trumps EPA pick (whoever that is) to have them...
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 16, 2016 - 07:56am PT
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I love this drama. Reminds me of the old-timey bible-thumpers... preaching hellfire and damnation for all non-believers.
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