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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:00am PT
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What happened to the gun show loophole? I thought we were going to fix that and everything was going to be better? Because, as we all know thousands of people were dying as a result of the egregious lapse in government oversight! A travesty I tell you! Lol.
A bi-polar, abusive, unhinged, religious zealot, who had already passed through the extensive background checks to become an ARMED security guard and even survived direct scrutiny of the FBI goes off the deep end and what do we call for? Expanded background checks for guns, of course.
Good lord.
But but but that's what CNN and the NYtimes is screaming for! It must be right! Our politicians and lawyers will save us!
I'm glad he didn't burn the place, that would have been worse looking at the layout of that building. Horrible anyway you cut it....
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:01am PT
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:05am PT
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*
It's time to change the laws for AR-15s and similar weapons. Require registration, with a renewal every two years. Complete background checks with every registration/renewal. Increase the thoroughness of background checks. Lower the standard for flagging applicants. If someone has been a person of interest, dig a little deeper. Anyone charged with felony should scrutinized further.
It's time for change. +2
Again, I was raised around guns, no one boasted or touted , no NRA members, guns were never in sight. My Papa had them for home protection and deer hunting.
Not a fan of assault weapons.
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Pud, thank you for putting up the names of the victims....
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:16am PT
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What happened to the gun show loophole?
that piece of legislation was blocked by the party you will vote for in November
because convicted felons should be able to buy military grade weapons at guns shows
without the hassle of a background check
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:21am PT
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Not a fan of assault weapons.
Interesting. I'm not a fan of murderers.
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Mick Ryan
Trad climber
The Peaks
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:27am PT
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Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in Oklahoma City; Omar Mateen, 50 so far in Orlando.
The USA has a problem with homegrown terrorists who kill their own, aided and abetted by most Republican senators who make assault rifles freely available to any loon.
(these Republican-sanctioned automatic weapons also murder the USA's children in schools).
I don’t think a Trump Wall around the USA will protect America from itself and the hate that people like Trump encourage.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:32am PT
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Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in Oklahoma City; Omar Mateen, 50 so far in Orlando.
The USA has a problem with homegrown terrorists who kill their own, aided and abetted by most Republican senators who make assault rifles freely available to any loon.
I hate to be picky, but McVeigh used a rental truck and ammonium nitrate fertilizer.
It saddens me that while the bodies of the victims of a hateful act of intolerance are barely cool, we've descended to intolerance of those whose opinions differ from ours. We disguise it as caring that this not happen again, but we're focusing on the means, while contributing to the cause of these sorts of outrages. For once, we need to mourn together.
John
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:32am PT
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It's time to change the laws for AR-15s and similar weapons. Require registration, with a renewal every two years. Complete background checks with every registration/renewal. Increase the thoroughness of background checks. Lower the standard for flagging applicants. If someone has been a person of interest, dig a little deeper. Anyone charged with felony should scrutinized further.
Also anyone who is a member of a church, temple, mosque or synagogue should automatically be denied renewal.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2016 - 11:37am PT
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It saddens me that while the bodies of the victims of a hateful act of intolerance are barely cool, we've descended to intolerance of those whose opinions differ from ours.
Sadly, it's a sign of the times.
Intolerance has gone mainstream.
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:37am PT
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Another senseless & pitiful waste. Unfortunately when the media refers this as the worst mass killing in US history, they need to add the words "to date" at the end of their statement. RIP brothers & sisters...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:38am PT
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Gary writes:
"Also anyone who is a member of a church, temple, mosque or synagogue should automatically be denied renewal."
First rule of safe shooting is "be sure of your target, and everything behind it"
Gary's suggestion sounds like Russian hostage *rescue* technique, where if all the hostages are killed in the rescue attempt, it's still a "success" if the hostage taker is also killed.
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Mick Ryan
Trad climber
The Peaks
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:41am PT
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I know that JEleazarian. You still have a problem with home-grown terrorism and extremism.
Before looking outward, look inward. There are many USA citizens of all religions and political persuasions that have extreme views.
Most just rant (First Amendment) but because you have access to automatic weapons (Second Amendment) you have slaughter on your streets on a regular basis.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:41am PT
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So, Esco...or anyone else...
What could have been done...or should be done...to prevent such horrific events?
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:46am PT
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Apogee
Mass murder is simply part of a free America.
Nothing needs to be done bad people don't obey laws.
They run red lights, see, laws did nothing there.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:53am PT
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"Evil finds a way"
Always has, always will.
So, in short, there's nothing you can do to prevent acts of madness against soft targets. The only hope you have is to be able to respond in a fashion to eliminate the threat, and that's not always going to be possible either.
Shooting people takes time, burning or blowing them up really doesn't. In this case, there's a small chance somebody could have killed the nutcase. Small chances are better than no chances.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 13, 2016 - 11:54am PT
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I think you are being facetious, Norton. I think.
Every time this happens, the gun nutz Right just quietly stands by their guns, without any kind of suggestion or effort made to do anything for the future.
It really does seem like their belief is that 'such things happen', and nothing can be done to prevent them in the future.
If that's the case, what has happened in recent decades that has allowed mass shootings to increase, with progressively higher mortality rates at each one?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 13, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
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Good question apogee... what has happened? What are the causes behind the behavior we see?
We've seen plenty of mass-murder in France with those killings. We also have that pilot murdered 400+ people slamming his plane into the ground a few months ago.
Are there any commonalities behind this behavior? Dunno, but that's something worth investigating rather than introducing more laws to an already absurd pile of laws.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 13, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
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Or ignoring it altogether, and accepting it as a 'normal' part of this society we live in...
Edit:
I might be able to get behind the idea of not reacting immediately with a bunch of laws, or at the very least, allowing enough time to understand this issue better and create intelligent legislation around it.
The problem is that the NRA will be doing everything they can to prevent better understanding of this phenomenon, and politicizing it amongst their brainwashed membership to result in nothing being done at all.
One reasonable law, in my mind: ABOLISH THE NRA.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 13, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
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It may be a cost of the free society in which we live, apogee. If we move toward being a police state by restricting free exercise of religion, or free association, or free speech, the right to be free of unreasonable searches and siezures, or the right to keep and bear arms, in an effort to stop this sort of terrorism, haven't the terrorists already succeeded in destroying our society?
We need to have some of the fortitude shown by the Brits in the midst of the terrorist attacks by the IRA. They refused to let the threat of terrorism cause them to change their essential way of life. Whatever we do to root out this evil should not be at the expense of the Bill of Rights. Sad to say, I expect calls to erode those freedoms from both the right and the left. These are not easy times for our country and society. I hope we are up to the task.
And Mick, I have no doubt that the presence of firearms affects the number of firearm homicides, but the causation isn't crystal clear. The table above shows an imperfect correlation. In any case, the history of the founding of the United States gave the framers a strong distrust of allowing the government to disarm its citizens. I don't think that distrust has disappeared sufficiently to change the Second Amendment.
Also, the shooter had no legal automatic weapons in Orlando. The AR-15 and other semi-automatic weapons still fire one shot at a time. To my knowledge, it still takes a permit - or membership in the military - to possess an automatic weapon in the United States.
John
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