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cat t.
climber
california
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Mar 30, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
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c wilmot, no. Very dissimilar. The recently publicized scandal was one in which a very well-reputed astronomer resigned in light of a years-long list of formal complaints from female colleagues, graduate students, and undergraduate students. After years of him dismissively saying that his thigh-groping and cheek-kisses (and much worse) were "intended in good spirit," he was ousted. The nasty part is that this does not seem to be unique behavior.
I shouldn't just slander astronomy, though, as they seem to have turned a corner and are taking these cases very seriously.
This is a really interesting blog post from an anonymous female astronomer about the "whisper culture" that surrounds serial offenders in academia.
edit: Oh man, the Ghomeshi case was an all-around disaster...
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 30, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
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why even have male/female bathrooms if you people no longer want the gender to mean anything?
Are people REALLY that confused about what women's liberation and gender equality means???? It's NOT expected that people have no sexual identity at all!
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c wilmot
climber
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Mar 30, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
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do you understand the biological difference between men and women?
again- why even have signs anymore?
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Mar 31, 2016 - 02:04am PT
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Reilly: how closely did you follow the ghomeshi case?
because your synopsis is not nearly correct...
canadian populace outraged? only the ones who either a. did not follow the case closely and relied on third hand [mis]information or b. those who believe that a person's word regarding sexual crimes should be ipso facto proof even when that word is undermined by other objective evidence [ie. mostly a vocal minority that yell louder than their numbers on twitter, facebook, etc.]. thankfully, so far, this is a minority opinion and justice still requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. and so if, as was the case with one witness, a person fails to mention that they had continued to persue their attacker, that they immediately afterwards wrote a letter saying that "you kicked my ass last night and that makes me want to f*#k your brains out" along with saying "I love your hands", then, sure, doubt is going to be created. now don't get me wrong: does any of that prove something non-consentual didn't happen? of course not. otoh, does withholding information and then deciding to revise or add to previous statements in the middle of a court case undermine the only evidence, their word, that these witnesses, had? until we've got god making judgements, for better and for worse: of course that's the case.
victims put on trial? umm... yeah, no. not in the way you've implied. were those making statements asked about directly relevant pieces of information that they failed to mention and/or mistakenly overlooked or possibly lied about? certainly. but regardless of whether we like it or not that is what a trial is. were any of these women asked about their sexual or romantic lives outside of their ghomeshi relationships? not that i'm aware of... ie. yes, the witnesses were cross-examined, but that is not the same as being "put on trial". and finally, was the privacy of these women respected? except for the woman who chose to have her name put out for pubication, yes it was.
so there is no confusion: in the court of public opinion, my own included, ghomeshi has been tried and generally resoundingly convicted [due in part to his own hubristic attempt at initially taking the case to the court of public opinion] of being a serial abuser, manipulator and in all likelihood rapist. and due to that conviction and his former fame he will live out the rest of his life as the pariah that he is.
that said, the justice system, given the prosecution and witnesses that they were presented with, was nothing if not restrained in its treatment of the victims.
if there is anyone to blame for the failure to convict it was the prosecutors in their abject failure to prepare these women and their cases in a fashion that didn't leave the witnesses hung out to dry as cannon fodder for an effective defence lawyer, and yes, unfortunately the victims are also to blame as they failed to disclose very important information, they colluded even though they were told not to, and they with regularity tried to explain away and contradict previous statements.
shit show? sure.
travesty of justice? as long as human justice systems require consistent evidence creating proof beyond a reasonable doubt, then no.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Mar 31, 2016 - 06:44am PT
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But you have to put the seat down when you're finished, hoss.
The courtesy is putting the seat up before pissing all over it.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Mar 31, 2016 - 07:16am PT
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Ed posted a 5 member board of which 2 are female, and 3 are male...
...if you look at the the Livermore school system in general, 80% of the administration, staff and support are women.
Issues of the cost of K-12 education are essentially related to the salaries that the teachers make, so it is interesting to see that women are the ones most effected by low teacher salaries, and criticisms of teaching competence, and accountability.
While this important societal role, teaching the children, falls predominantly to women (at least in Livermore) one wonders at the societal support for this important profession. And further, we can ask the question, why aren't there more men in this profession?
My suspicion is that men can make a higher salary in other jobs.
More money and more prestige. Why Americans think we should both pay teachers poorly and then also treat them poorly is beyond me. There is also evidence that as women move into new fields they drive the wages in those fields down. Whether that is due to an implicit bias or increased supply I do not know.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 31, 2016 - 11:20am PT
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HighDesertDJ: Why Americans think we should both pay teachers poorly and then also treat them poorly is beyond me.
Perhaps it's due to a perception that most teaching is not being done very well. It may be more than just a perception.
I can expect that a retort would arise that if teachers were paid more, they would perform better. However, pay is only one variable in a very complex system that includes many many variables. If one looks at other kinds of organizations or industries, what people are paid does not predict performance very well—unless particular kinds of people work in sales. It’s difficult to imagine why teaching would be unique as compared to other work.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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If one looks at other kinds of organizations or industries, what people are paid does not predict performance very well—unless particular kinds of people work in sales.
True that, but most other jobs don't supply the workers so poorly that they have to spend money from their own pockets in order to do a decent job, and don't have work they do beyond a specific set of hours.
Might it be that some of those "poorly performing" teachers may simply have become burnt out from the emotional toll and being forced to "make do" with inadequate support? To suggest they should just "get out then" isn't really fair, and would only add to the burden and create further failure.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Canada isn't outraged
Sorry, I let my women's lib bias show. I should have said Barrie is outraged.
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