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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2015 - 02:24pm PT
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High Traverse: My compliments to you for your response to the comment blaming the victims for not reacting like a room full of Rambos.
Unless someone has been in the middle of a mass shooting and, unarmed, took the weapon away from the bad guy, it defies belief that anyone could make such a statement.
Here's a short story from my own life, and it DID NOT involve gun play or any form of heroics on my part: Many years ago, I was in an atrium when I heard a shout of distress and ran over to see what was going on. Turned out that when I arrived along with another guy, there was a guy hanging by his neck from a rope. We got him down and, as I had first aid training, I started to do the ABCs on him. Just like we were taught in class, I directly asked one of the maybe eight spectators who had arrived (and I knew by name) to call an ambulance. The person I addressed stood there like a deer transfixed by car headlights. I tried again with the next one with the same result and on and on down the line. Not one person moved. Finally the guy who had helped me get the fellow down took off and made the call.
The point of this story is that everyone froze up and their lives were not in any danger whatsoever. People are people, and shock and/or fear can cause human beings to just stand there doing nothing during emergencies.
I can only wonder what it was like for those poor people to be in the middle of that nightmare, but there was most certainly a humanity present among them that was completely absent in the mind of the shooter.
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Mick Ryan
Trad climber
The Peaks
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Jun 20, 2015 - 02:28pm PT
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scrubbing bubbles wrote..."the problem is it always happens to "someone else"
"when a 2nd Amendment fanatic has his son or daughter killed like this, then rest assured they will re-think gun control"
I read the whole thread, and the above speaks volumes.
Think of the pain, loss and suffering the Sandy Hook parents have to live with for the rest of their lives.
Just try to imagine that.
And if you could, just a little - things would change
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 20, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
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I do not believe "he" was a convicted felon.
Was he?
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Jun 20, 2015 - 02:50pm PT
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From what I read the morning following the incident, it was reported he convicted of a felony drug possession; that fact may have been erroneous. I haven't read much about the shooting since.
He would not have passed the background check to make the sale legal by the gun shop; so maybe it was an error in reporting.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 20, 2015 - 02:53pm PT
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Mr. Roof had two prior brushes with the law, both in recent months, according to court records. In February, he attracted attention at the Columbiana Centre, a shopping mall, by asking store employees “out-of-the-ordinary questions” such as how many people were working and what time they would be leaving, according to a police report. An officer who responded searched him and found Suboxone, a prescription drug used to treat opiate addiction and frequently sold in illegal street transactions. Mr. Roof admitted that he did not have a prescription for the drug, the report said, and he was arrested and charged with felony drug possession. The case is continuing.
In April, Mr. Roof was charged with trespassing on the roof of the same mall. The police report said he had been banned from the mall for a year after the previous arrest. Mr. Roof was convicted on that charge, a misdemeanor.
http://gawker.com/heres-what-we-know-about-the-alleged-charleston-shooter-1712278933
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 20, 2015 - 03:08pm PT
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Not convicted felon, but an indicted one.
Banned from possessing a firearm or having one transferred to him under SC law just the same.
Dad and grandpa if both are involved in the purchase and transfer should see real jail time.
Does anyone really believe that no one in the family, including his pa didn't know what was on his Facebook page?
Evidently his sister did and dropped a dime on him as soon as she saw the surveillance camera footage on TV and identified him.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Jun 20, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
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I hate to add to the baggage here but the fact that he reloaded 5 times begs brings up a point of contention.
If he reloaded 5 times that translates to 4-5 rounds per victim; as a .45 clip holds 8 rounds; which means he either missed often or was hell bent on making sure they were dead.
The time involved depends on how many clips he had. If he had multiple clips he could change them out rapidly. If he only had one or two, it would take a few minutes to feed shells into the clip.
That must have been an eternity for those that were still living while he did so.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2015 - 05:06pm PT
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Rdog: It was you that criticized the victims for not tackling the shooter. I can hardly for you to tell us how many crazed gunmen you've disarmed while people are screaming and dying all around you.
For what it's worth, the entire WORLD is pissed off about this shooting.
While, admittedly, on occasion, similar outrages occur in other advanced industrial democracies, it would not be much of a stretch to say that they nearly never happen in any of these nations.
These massacres are almost routine in the U.S., and there is something evil about the way the "rights" of gun owners overwhelmingly overshadow those of human beings who would prefer not to get shot.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Jun 20, 2015 - 05:20pm PT
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It's Ron.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2015 - 05:26pm PT
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crankster: wouldn't surprise me a damn bit.
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jstan
climber
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Jun 20, 2015 - 05:27pm PT
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there is something evil about the way the "rights" of gun owners overwhelmingly overshadow those of human beings who would prefer not to get shot.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^+10
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Gene
climber
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Jun 20, 2015 - 05:49pm PT
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Can anyone tell me the ratio of firearm deaths in the US of A by murder or accident compared to the 'righteous' shootings of someone defending his/her person or their castle?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 20, 2015 - 05:51pm PT
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Does self defense with a gun require that the gun be fired?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jun 20, 2015 - 06:06pm PT
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He even screws up his ellipses with commas like Ron...
Good to have ya back bud. Keep yer nose clean this time 'round.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2015 - 06:10pm PT
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Rdog: It's now apparent that you can't read. Check my last post again and attempt to understand the clear wording that I used. I await an apology for your poor reading skills.
I have always been careful to make it clear that I have no animosity to citizens of the United States, and am proud to call many U.S. citizens friends of mine. That said, I have a serious problem with inhabitants of any nation who seem to feel that the possession of lethal weaponry is somehow equated with the size of their penis, and have nothing but contempt for those who shrug off these atrocities as a fair price to pay for their "right" to own firearms.
Now it's your turn. Tell us how many massacres you have stopped while standing amidst screams of terror while the dead and dying piled up around you.
You should be ashamed of yourself for dishonouring those helpless people for failing to measure up to your Hollywood-fuelled delusions of how people behave during these nightmares.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2015 - 06:39pm PT
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Rdog: No, I'm not a particularly bitter person, unless you consider my outrage at yet another senseless massacre as bitterness. If so, my bitterness is shared by millions of your fellow countrymen who are also sickened by these outrages.
I find it actually amusing that you're such an intellectual featherweight that you have completely ignored my response to your previous ill-informed posting... although I must commend you for your heroic defence of my appalling slur against female gun owners.
Come to think of it, how many women unleash these avalanches of horror upon innocent people?
Check out americanbar.org for access to a legally respectable perspective on gun violence in the U.S.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 20, 2015 - 06:45pm PT
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Rdog can't be ron anderson
ron knows ChrisMac and RJ Spurrier banned him and don't want him around here
Ron would respect that and not try to come back under another username.......................
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Jun 20, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
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Welcome back Ron, we new you couldn't stay away.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 20, 2015 - 07:11pm PT
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Presumed innocent. Sure looks it here.
“I chose Charleston because it is most historic city in my state, and at one time had the highest ratio of blacks to Whites in the country,” the manifesto says. “We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.
I don't go to church, but if I was there and escaped the first fusillade, Roof would have been heard to utter the infamous phase "I can't breathe" and we wouldn't be worrying about his innocence. Let God forgive him.
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