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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2015 - 08:23am PT
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Lol Jim! I'll admit it is certainly that, but it seems to have generated some discussion!
I haven't forgotten about this thread at all, just went climbing yesterday and was too bagged after to properly respond.
This thread needs a few pics so here's Pei on that climb i mentioned.
Pei crushing You Snooze You Lose 10d
A proper redpoint. Notice where the draws are? On her harness.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Pinkpointing is the pussification of our fine sport.
sport wankers need to learn to place gear, on lead, like men.
did you ever hear a Stonemaster saying they Pinkpointed?
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sDawg
climber
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I fundamentally disagree. Bolt placement is itself artificial. Once you're using pre-placed bolts you're not placing all the protection yourself, and I don't think anyone is advocating drilling a new set of holes every time a route is climbed.
In general, I am wary of rules that reinforce the ruling class dynamic in climbing. Any time you purport that x, y, or z must be done exactly as the FA did it, or as "most climbers" do it, you advantage those who happen to look and climb like climbers always have, and you close doors to people with different styles and physical strengths.
Specifically, as a shorter-than-5.9 climber, I find that the hardest and scariest part of sport climbing is often hanging a draw. This is frustrating because it's not an innate feature of the rock, but an accident of the height of the first ascencionist relative to me. Pre-hanging draws often allows me to climb the ROCK in a more authentic way, clipping from the restful stances that the FA used to hang the draws, but from which I can't reach the bolt. Perhaps this comnpromises the authenticity of my climbing the artificial bolt line. I'm OK with that.
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Highlander
Big Wall climber
Ouray, CO
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When sport climbing I call it red pointing, I am not going to clean the draws if I am making another attempt at a route or climbing after my partner has just climbed the route and hung the draws. That's just stupid, its spot climbing; if you want to call it pink pointing then go for it, no one really cares what you call it, it just makes you sound like an old crusty who is out touch with reality and needs to come up with their own rules to justify themselves and how they climb in a better style than others and attempt diminish the accomplishments of others. It is just climbing, get a life.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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There can be only one.
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SweetWilliam
Boulder climber
TheSand,Man
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this is pretty stupid.
nobody gives a crap 1987 called and want their style back.
lookit, Bigmike, some chick hangin draws on the warmup, snooooozer duder. we go to lots of places with fixed draws in caves and who wants to mess with trammin and cleanuing between every go? its dumb, waste a bunch of time and energy for what for nothing that's what. cause some old dude that cant climb our warmups thinks hes better for hanging draws on the n00ber routes. woo hoo good for u give me a holla when u stop advanced hikin and start rock climbing.
then u got stuff like dudes bolting for double clippin where they hang a long draw and clip it twice once low and once up near the bolt. even ur hero Cosgrove did stuff like that and says so right here"
"My first day I was able to do all the moves and started thinking about placing the bolts. On such a historic rock and a very high profile line, I was determined to place them in just the right spots. Unfortunately, the climb has very few good stances to stop and rest, and the clips although hard, are in the best possible place for clipping and safety. I used a quick draw with a long runner on the forth bolt so I could do a dangerous clip in two stages"
that's the sick cutting edge route on the headstone. u wankers need to be crankers and u have more problems like when does ur 14c proj goes in the shade.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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did you ever hear a Stonemaster saying they Pinkpointed?
Didn't hear them say it, but they did that and yoyo ascents all the time. Lol
Image is not mine obviously...
Personally, when sport climbing, my friends and I often lead routes, pull the rope and second person leads the same route with draws in place. It saves time. And none of us really give a sh#t what someone calls it. Maybe if we did cutting edge climbing there would be a difference...I dunno, never cared really. But that's just me.
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Ban Big Mike.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2015 - 09:33am PT
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Ad HominemLP needs to bring his thoughts to this discussion.
Otherwise keep bumping dude, it does keep the thread on top for the rest of us.
Personally, when sport climbing, my friends and I often lead routes, pull the rope and second person leads the same route with draws in place. It saves time. And none of us really give a sh#t what someone calls it. Maybe if we did cutting edge climbing there would be a difference...I dunno, never cared really. But that's just me.
Just don't be surprised if i ask you to strip the draws for me bro. Of course if it's hard enough i'll just be top-roping... Lol
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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So many people on here say "they don't care what you call it".....and then tell you it's redpoint, redpoint, redpoint and go into great detail about why it's the same and ok because it saves time, and they climb hard and so on. All the while insulting others. Nice community!?
If you were tough as you spray - you'd f'n onsite [period].
Here, it's all on the internet so there's nothing to argue about anymore! Case closed LOL!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redpoint_(climbing)
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2015 - 09:42am PT
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2015 called and it said "Tell those guys to stop watering down the definition of redpoint!!"
LOL!
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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I still don't get all the talk about toughness/courage/pussification...it's sport climbing! The whole point is that it is relatively safe. You're definitely climbing in the wrong place if you want to look bold at a sport crag. I don't sport climb to be bold and kind of think it laughable that anyone would ever even bring up "boldness" in the context of sport climbing. If I want think I'm bold (I'm not really BTW), I'll go plug gear on a runout trad climb.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2015 - 09:47am PT
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I still don't get all the talk about toughness/courage/pussification...it's sport climbing!
Agreed. Notice i've never said any of those things. Just that I think the correct terminology should be used.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Just that I think the correct terminology should be used. Let me help you out here, you clearly need it.
< 12a or so. Nobody gives a sh#t, call it anything. Extra points for adding "in my approach shoes" or "roller skates".
~12b-12c "RP" = nobody gives a sh#t if you hung your own draws or they were already hanging, but you can note it if you like, just to be clear among people of similar ability.
> 12c "RP" = everyone assumes the draws were hanging, you don't need to add anything else to your statement. If the draws were not hanging, you might be inclined to add "OS/RP while hanging draws" to send home the point that you really shouldn't have been wasting your time on a climb so beneath you.
"Pinkpoint" = "I'm a noob and really should STFU because I don't know anything about rock climbing".
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2015 - 09:59am PT
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Once again, putting down other people. Thanks for your contribution.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Uhhhhh, Big Mike .... I need to tell you something about sport climbing.
Except for two possibilites, nobody prehangs draws on a 10d.
The first possibilty is that the climber's onsight limit is about 5.9, and they had to work the thing like crazy to have a chance at climbing it. In that case, leaving the draws in to get the send, after having worked the route, is a reasonable enough move. Are you suggesting that Pei had to fight to learn this 10d on various attempts, but then heroically took out the draws and then replaced them when she attempted the send, thus earning the prestigious banner of "true redpointer" instead of the more demeaning and less prestigious title of "pinkpointer"?
I suppose the other possibility is there are several people climbing in a group, in which case after the first one places the draws, it's pretty silly that everyone else climbing takes out them out and then puts them back in again. In this case, Pei might be the rope gun, because somebody has to put the draws in. But when the rest climb, if taking out the draws and then putting them back in again, on a sport route that is well within your limit is your thing, then by all means, go ahead and do it. At any rate, nobody really makes a big deal about "redpointing" routes that are within their limit.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
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JLP's bias and bluster = no body gives a sh#t.
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Highlander
Big Wall climber
Ouray, CO
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Let me help you out here, you clearly need it.
< 12a or so. Nobody gives a sh#t, call it anything. Extra points for adding "in my approach shoes" or "roller skates".
~12b-12c "RP" = nobody gives a sh#t if you hung your own draws or they were already hanging, but you can note it if you like, just to be clear among people of similar ability.
> 12c "RP" = everyone assumes the draws were hanging, you don't need to add anything else to your statement. If the draws were not hanging, you might be inclined to add "OS/RP while hanging draws" to send home the point that you really shouldn't have been wasting your time on a climb so beneath you.
"Pinkpoint" = "I'm a noob and really should STFU because I don't know anything about rock climbing".
+1
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SweetWilliam
Boulder climber
TheSand,Man
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yeah that yanquu and jlp said it right.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2015 - 10:13am PT
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Except for two possibilites, nobody prehangs draws on a 10d.
That is in fact not true. The climbers on the 11c next to us had hung their draws on you snooze for their warm down, so the first time Pei tried it, was with the draws in thanks to them. In fact you can thank them for this thread.
Are you suggesting that Pei had to fight to learn this 10d on various attempts, but then heroically took out the draws and then replaced them when she attempted the send, thus earning the prestigious banner of "true redpointer" instead of the more demeaning and less prestiguous title of "pinkpointer"?
No, this is something i struggled with.
Last night we climbed a local route called You Snooze, You Lose 10d. A route which I have redpointed in the past, before my Spinal Cord Injury.
I was able to free it on toprope, a full two years before i ever got the redpoint. The reason why i couldn't redpoint it was hanging on at the crux long enough to make the second to last clip was a real feat. It's still a feat with the draw on, but less so. For me, until i could walk up to the crag and get on it, without preparing it, it just didn't feel right.
And i disagree that pinkpoint is a derogatory term. Just one that is more accurate for the situation at hand.
Thanks for your thoughts Yanqui.
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