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Crazy Bat
Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
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Apr 27, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
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Hoser, it is my experience that if you don't respect the religion and morals of the people who inhabit your favorite recreation areas you and all your friends soon loose access to those areas. My experience is in caving. North Alabama, NW Georgia and SE Tenn have a lot in common with Mexico. If you don't behave appropriately they won't let you come back, even if you bring a lot of money to spend.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Apr 27, 2015 - 05:44pm PT
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I recall 35 years or so ago being in Nepal. I had studied structural design and earthquake engineering and thought the place looked like an earthquake disaster waiting to happen. I asked a Nepali guy if they had earthquakes and he said no, never. When back home I looked up historic earthquakes in Nepal and quickly learned that they have had quite a few which of course one would expect where the mountains are still growing higher. Human memories are not long enough for geologic events.
I look at the media coverage today and find that most of it seems to be focused on a handful of foreign tourist/climbers who have too much money. I would think the few helicopters they have could be put to better use than rescuing a few of the "Huge head with skinny neck and fat wallet" types inhabiting Everest base camp. Being a Sherpa doesn't make you a saint.
When the dust settles I think we will find that the death toll and suffering in the mountain villages is much, much higher than currently being reported. The houses can be several stories tall and are built of stone with mud mortar. It will take some time before we hear how bad it really is.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Apr 27, 2015 - 06:39pm PT
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All this is kinda crazy, ST posters arguing in the largeness of their lives when people have been killed, injured and lives changed forever. Poor, rich and in between, people hurt. Let's put aside our personal judgement calls and post prayers, send money and even volunteer to help in this devastating crisis.
Lots of hurt today........went up to our closest mountain, Palomar, last couple hours, burnt sage and said prayers.
Gotta stick together and love one another. You, me, we only have today.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2015 - 08:27pm PT
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Thank you Lynne on several levels!
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Mark Rodell
Trad climber
Bangkok
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Apr 27, 2015 - 09:16pm PT
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Thank you Jan. I am glad you friends are well. The school I worked at seems to have survived. All my friends who live there that have contacted me are okay. That said, I am waiting to hear from others.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2015 - 09:20pm PT
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And here's a discouraging report on Facebook which illustrates a large part of the problem.
7:12pm.
I have been at the airport since the last six hours waiting for my sister to fly back to Denmark. An rather sad observation to note. Fully prepped rescue teams from various countries have arrived, but they have been stranded at the airport since the last 4 hours or more. The government representatives assigned to mobilise them are the same lousy lot and taking their own sweet time to get them to the disaster hit grounds.
And after all that hours of wait, what arrives is just one mini Tata truck with an open backside, tiny Gypsies and a couple of microbuses. Where are all the massive SUVs and fully covered trucks? And what are the armies assigned doing just watching them load their equipments and taking mobile videos? How on earth are they supposed to transport all their gears and themselves with this little arrangement? And it's even going to rain now.
Come on incompetent politicians, if you can't get work done faster, at least do something to mobilise these fully prepared folks to the ground as soon as possible. All these politicians want is a bundle of cash, even in these desperate times. It's sad, really sad. God help us.
Regardless, international communities please don't lose hope on us and keep sending them forces. We really appreciate all of this help.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Apr 27, 2015 - 09:40pm PT
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Thanks always for your up to date info Jan. You are an awesome member of the campfire.
We must not be discouraged. We must do what each of us can....a call, a prayer, whatever. The work will get done. This is a time for encouragement, for energy, for thinking outside the box, along with love and compassion.
For the person that reported this I especially pray and ask God to send out positive energy to not be discouraged. For all those that are hungry, homeless, tired, injured, missing loved ones.....I pray blessings of peace and encouragement and let the man power and money raised get there quickly to help those in need.
Sent with love from all of us here....
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2015 - 09:58pm PT
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The sad fact is, the Nepalese have never had a government that cared about them. The good news is that it has made them strong and resilient. If anything, they have been too patient and long suffering. This disaster may turn out to be the catalyst that finally motivates them to bring about a real change. Even Jesus had righteous anger, and anger can get things done when patience can't.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Apr 27, 2015 - 10:23pm PT
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You are right on, Jan. Thanks for your comment!
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Apr 27, 2015 - 10:35pm PT
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Seeing the world through a Western lens is often a distorted view. This usually is not the fault of the observer, but it does compounds the difficulties as mentioned in that Facebook post that Jan posted.
There is a reason these are 3rd and 4th world countries.
Catalyst for (real) change may very well be the result of this suffering.
The Nepalese are a resilient peoples, however like all of us they are a product of their government's actions or, inactions as the case may be.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2015 - 11:23pm PT
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There is a reason these are 3rd and 4th world countries.
Indeed! One of the first things one learns in that part of the world is that poverty isn't just about lack of money.
But thanks Lynne, for your words of encouragement. It is easy to get discouraged at times like this. Keep reminding me to be optimistic if it seems I'm going to far down the other path.
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CCT
Trad climber
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Apr 27, 2015 - 11:48pm PT
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I am not on the ground, but I would be hesitant to criticize a 4-hour mobilization delay, and inadequate transportation. I doubt that Nepal has a good transportation infrastructure to begin with, and most of their equipment is probably already in use by existing Nepalese units. It is undoubtedly a logistical nightmare over there right now, even for the best trained personnel. Any rescue workers going to that area should ideally be completely self-sufficient, including transportation. E.g., foreign government should be involved.
Not saying that the Nepalese government doesn't have issues. I'm sure it does. I just doubt that bribes and corruption is really the immediate problem here.
Defer to Jan though.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 27, 2015 - 11:59pm PT
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hey there, say, jan... thanks for all the updates...
oh my...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2015 - 12:04am PT
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The problem is 50% incompetence, 50% corruption. Each government official has a large Japanese 4 wheel drive Pajero provided at government expense but none of those were sent. I did wonder though why the embassies of the countries involved hadn't met their own groups. Someone on Facebook mentioned this had to do with "protocol". I'm pretty sure that won't happen again however as word will spread quickly among the rescue teams not to wait on the government or the embassies. It won't be the first time that aid workers have had to defy their own embassies and the Nepalese government to actually get things done on behalf of the Nepalese people. (If you think I'm cynical it's because I worked on a foreign aid project for three years in Nepal).
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Apr 28, 2015 - 12:44am PT
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Your right though He was so angry He threw out the moneychangers and the sellers of doves from the temple square. They weren't jews. They were there basically ripping off the local jews with inflated currency exchange which they needed inorder to buy their wares including doves which were the cheapest animal at the time to use for sacrifice that the poorest jews had to have. Again these were people with money taking advantage and stealing from the poor. Sound familiar?? This is the only time I can think of when He actually physically lashed out against anyone.
I don't think your wrong to be angry at the ones in power not harkening to those in need:-)
And your right again that this could be a good time for those suffering to hear a word of enlightenment..
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brodracula
Trad climber
hawaii
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Apr 28, 2015 - 01:01am PT
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My prayers go out to all.just saw the account of last years avalanche on the icefall, now this.Its like the mt. is trying to tell us something.Maybe that the whole Everest over guided scene has gotten to big.or that we had just started taken her for granted.like murphy's law states whatever can happen will happen.when climbing or hiking under hanging ice its not a question of if but when.one time me and a friend were looking at cerro torre dreaming of being on the face.then through binos I saw some summit ice breakloose and cream the face.it was at that point I started weighing risk vs reward a lot more.in every aspect of my life.
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Crazy Bat
Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
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Apr 28, 2015 - 03:35am PT
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I've never been to Nepal. Mexico was my only exposure to a third world country. When I read Jan's post about the large SUV's my first thought was, hmm if that was Mexico they wouldn't have been parked on the street, they would have been in garages. I imagine that would mean they would have been crushed in Nepal. Could that be part of the problem?
Only a small part I am sure.
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