Muslim Leaders denounce Paris massacre

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Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 8, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
There is a schism between the “leaders” of the Islamic movement and the new generation. The elders can say anything they want; express outrage at the killing by blade of Rabbis or the gunning down of the satirists and policeman in Paris. The new young radicals will pay no attention to those who claim to be their leaders. Many of these alleged leaders live very well in foreign lands leaving the next generation to carry the sword. Yassir Arafat for example amassed a fortune as he pretended to help his people. The young radicals will pay these men no mind and Muslims around the world will see these old men as the hypocrites they are. But for some reason westerners find some hope in their meaningless words.

Anyone see Bill Maher last night on Kimmel last night? Hit the nail squarely on the head.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Jan 8, 2015 - 01:33pm PT
Whatever happened to that guy that drew cartoons mocking Islam that was blamed for Benghazi? I suppose he still locked up to protect him from radical muslims right? If that is not a direct attack on free speech I don't know what is. Even if it was true that the attacks were brought on by that cartoon free speech was still suppressed. It's fine to shout in the streets "We want dead cops now" but you better not make fun of fookin Mohammed. Makes sense.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 8, 2015 - 02:32pm PT
I think it was a film. Not a very good one. If he's in jail that's really screwed up.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 8, 2015 - 02:40pm PT
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Jan 8, 2015 - 02:58pm PT
I'm always amazed by how stupid other people are. Yes we get it - in the subsumption hierarchy the greater information measures the lesser information. We worship you and your beliefs. Sure, it's THEM that's the problem.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Jan 8, 2015 - 03:23pm PT
The strategy for the attack was to ignite just the kind of anti-muslim response we see here to destabilize French society - every bit as sophisticated as the attack's execution. 911 worked beautifully to accomplish this - seems like not much has changed, at least here.

France has a vociferous anti muslim Right wing, but the country's much larger Muslim population will hopefully incentivize that country to focus on good intelligence and law enforcement rather than the kind of wide spread civil rights abuses and massive military blunders our own country bumbled into after 911.

Friends in Paris report thousands of Muslims attended the memorial vigil/protests in Paris , FWIW.

By all means, lets go after the world's 2 billion Muslims (how, exactly?). An excellent, focused strategy to...to...to do something, I guess.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 8, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
**
HANDS UP

DON'T SHOOT!
**

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 8, 2015 - 03:34pm PT
Yeah, that's why the same ilk executed a crazy man in Pakistan

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2901664/Police-Blasphemy-accused-killed-release-Pakistan.html

and a bloger was whipped almost to death in Sody

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/27792055/saudi-blogger-to-be-publicly-flogged-for-insulting-islam


If you're not permitted to mock a religion, You have in fact been effectively coerced into offering a quasi-religious genuflection and deference to that religion.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Jan 8, 2015 - 03:47pm PT
no conspiracy theories required. Sophisticated terrorism is street theater - calculated to have major impact on politics, economies, and public opinion. That guys like the Chief are being played by their smarter opponents is the perps desired outcome. Al Qaeda has proven to be really good at this. They know much better than we know them.

What worries Al Qaeda leadershipis cool, methodical counter terrorism like drone strikes, which have been incredibly effective in killing Al Qaeda leadership, albeit at huge civilian cost snd all the politicsl fallout from it .

Widespread western sentiment and action against Muslims of the sort that gives the Chiefs of the world a rise in the Levis is a superb recruiting tool for an increasingly distributed, flat terrorist movement. Thank you for playing along, although the game is chess, not checkers.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Jan 8, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
and no, i dont advocate appeasement through censorship, voluntary or otherwise, so save that typical strawman. quite the opposite.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 8, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
They don't need a recruiting tool when they have the koran.

Read it some time.

Looks like even the New Yorker is waking up

The murders today in Paris are not a result of France’s failure to assimilate two generations of Muslim immigrants from its former colonies. They’re not about French military action against the Islamic State in the Middle East, or the American invasion of Iraq before that. They’re not part of some general wave of nihilistic violence in the economically depressed, socially atomized, morally hollow West—the Paris version of Newtown or Oslo. Least of all should they be “understood” as reactions to disrespect for religion on the part of irresponsible cartoonists.

They are only the latest blows delivered by an ideology that has sought to achieve power through terror for decades. (correction: Centuries) It’s the same ideology that sent Salman Rushdie into hiding for a decade under a death sentence for writing a novel, then killed his Japanese translator and tried to kill his Italian translator and Norwegian publisher. The ideology that murdered three thousand people in the U.S. on September 11, 2001. The one that butchered Theo van Gogh in the streets of Amsterdam, in 2004, for making a film. The one that has brought mass rape and slaughter to the cities and deserts of Syria and Iraq. That massacred a hundred and thirty-two children and thirteen adults in a school in Peshawar last month. That regularly kills so many Nigerians, especially young ones, that hardly anyone pays attention.

Because the ideology is the product of a major world religion, a lot of painstaking pretzel logic goes into trying to explain what the violence does, or doesn’t, have to do with Islam. Some well-meaning people tiptoe around the Islamic connection, claiming that the carnage has nothing to do with faith, or that Islam is a religion of peace, or that, at most, the violence represents a “distortion” of a great religion. (After suicide bombings in Baghdad, I grew used to hearing Iraqis say, “No Muslim would do this.”) Others want to lay the blame entirely on the theological content of Islam, as if other religions are more inherently peaceful—a notion belied by history as well as scripture.

A religion is not just a set of texts but the living beliefs and practices of its adherents. Islam today includes a substantial minority of believers who countenance, if they don’t actually carry out, a degree of violence in the application of their convictions that is currently unique. Charlie Hebdo had been nondenominational in its satire, sticking its finger into the sensitivities of Jews and Christians, too—but only Muslims responded with threats and acts of terrorism. For some believers, the violence serves a will to absolute power in the name of God, which is a form of totalitarianism called Islamism—politics as religion, religion as politics. “Allahu Akbar!” the killers shouted in the street outside Charlie Hebdo. They, at any rate, know what they’re about.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/blame-for-charlie-hebdo-murders



rojos

Sport climber
Jan 8, 2015 - 03:51pm PT
If I had a French car, I'd probably torch it also.

Even if you had a Bugatti?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 8, 2015 - 04:25pm PT
Good stuff... "Even the New Yorker"....

About as good as citing Alex Jones.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jan 8, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
Even if the official story (which reeks of propaganda) were true, that does not justify the genocide we have directly commited in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya/Syria over the past 12+ years.

Chief, I know you already quoted this but I want to add that reading the quote makes me want to vomit. It's exactly the sort of thinking that keeps the ball bouncing.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 8, 2015 - 04:44pm PT
The Chief is a good dude, fear. Some may disagree with his opinions here, but the man is solid.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 8, 2015 - 04:49pm PT
Never said he wasn't!
crankster

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
Other than whipping up anti-Muslim sentiment what is it Exactly that you righties think the western world should do?

Are you as concerned when an American kid goes on a rampage?

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 8, 2015 - 04:53pm PT
The religion of peas personified, (and not a white Christian devil in sight to blame it on)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-30728158
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Jan 8, 2015 - 04:53pm PT
Richard Dawkins had a great insight. He envisioned religions as memes in an evolutionary arena. Let’s go back to pre-agriculture times – more than 12 thousand years ago. The fact that humans were spread out in tribal groups and confederations of tribal groups had to mean that there were a lot more religions back then, both relative to the population, and, I would guess, absolutely.

Now move into the agricultural age and you have bigger groups invading and conquering each other and suddenly these disparate religions are in a position to compete for the hearts and minds of both conquerors and conquered. This is the evolutionary arena mentioned in the opening sentence. It’s survival of the fittest here.
The Abrahamic religions, pretty fricking successful if you ask me, hit on a great strategy, actually two of them. The first is - “put no other gods before me” and I’m going to throw in, “fear me”. I mean, you’re basically trying to snuff out the other guy from the get-go. This is Evolutionary Strategies 101 stuff.

The second is to inculcate your young with these ideas (at your peril if you don’t, of course) at the earliest age possible. This ensures that the meme imprints at the optimal time in the children. This is the reason that Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Iraq, and Afghanistan are collectively more than 96 % Muslim. Great strategy, if you’re a religion meme. It’s obvious, in retrospect.

The Abrahamic religions have been the big winners, of course. Somehow, however, the youngest of them, Islam, has not gotten over the “put no other gods before me” thing. What it has done exceptionally well is inculcating its young at phenomenal rates. I think this is where there might be solutions.
crankster

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2015 - 04:59pm PT
Some groups of Muslims in France are assimilating well. A large percentage are not. Unemployment is extreme in this group. Unfortunately, this environment is fertile grounds for jihadist recruiters.
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