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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Dec 12, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
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Trolled by CMac
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 12, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
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Pretty much the ultimate troll. Ouch!!!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Dec 12, 2014 - 07:09pm PT
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I agree that moderation is essential if one wants to control the tone and content of what is posted. If you let people say anything and post anything, then sooner or later just about everything will show up. There are those who like that, and of course they tend to congregate and ultimately produce the kind of atmosphere that excites them.
Behind the idea of moderation is the fact that the owners of the site have a sense of what the place should be and how people on the site should interact, a sense of identity. Whatever CMac's personal feelings may be, the site itself is left almost in free-fall, with no guidance except for the occasional after-the-fact response to something deemed outrageous.
To see an almost polar opposite approach that works very well, look at the posting guidelines for UKClimbing.com, http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/guidelines.html. Of course, that is a fully categorized site, but it gets a lot of traffic and has a vast amount of climbing-related discussion going on.
The UKC guidelines go on and on and would eliminate all kinds of topics and activities that are common on this site. Indeed, they specifically address certain types of activity that is fairly common here. My point is not about the content of the UKC guidelines however. It is that they know what they want their identity to be (and they what it should not be). They've obviously been around the block and know quite specifically what they'd rather not see. They aren't polling the users. They aren't posting notes saying golly-gee folks, we'd really like it if cut this or that crap out. They're saying, this is who we are, this is what we believe, and if you want to participate, here are the parameters delineating what is acceptable. My feeling is that if CMac isn't able to do that, Supertopo will remain feral, to use Peter's term, with all the potential that the term implies.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 12, 2014 - 07:13pm PT
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He gets to choose what content, who gets the whack, what is appropriate and what is not.
CMac doesn't need to engage - he rarely has in the history of this forum.
He is simply trying to get a feel for what people think about the direction of the forum.
Showing concern, as any good Overlord should do...
;-)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 12, 2014 - 07:29pm PT
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Crimpie's in da house, BEHAVE!!!!!
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Dec 12, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
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My gut feeling is Crimpie is right and it may be too late?
Posting a new relevant topic on here takes a lot of energy, time and desire most of all. I think the desire is gone for many of the traditional contributors. Is it all down hill from here? Appears that way.
C'est la vie MFers
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 12, 2014 - 08:01pm PT
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I hope not Guido..
But we have lost quite a few of the best
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 12, 2014 - 08:57pm PT
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^^ Ooooh, Mr. Anonymous Avatar. Your opinion is soooooo valued here, because you are such a real and highly regarded member of the climbing community.
Now, contrast the anonymous [mostly worthless] person above, with John Eleazarian's excellent editorial below.
It takes balls to stand behind your identity. Any coward can hide behind a anonymous or fake avatar, and such posters are for the most part inconsequential clutter.
I can't help but think that if members of the forum were somehow required to stand behind their identity, that this would be a better place. But how to achieve this? Thoughts?
Pete Zabrok
Ontario, Canada
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 12, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
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Based on past experience, I'll enjoy this site whatever CMac decides. To answer the question he posed, though, I think controversy is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for unsuitability. Neither is off- versus on-topic. We've had plenty of climbing-related threads degenerate into insult-fests, too.
For me, there are two separate areas that detract from any site. First are threads that, by their title and content, tell certain people they aren't full-fledged members of the discussion. For example, if I were a woman, the presence of "boob threads" would tell me that I'm an outsider, because no one would knowingly degrade an "insider" that way. I applaud ST management for getting rid of those threads.
Getting rid of the insult-fests, however, strikes me as a much more difficult issue. I have a pretty thick skin, so insults won't stop me from stating my opinion, but I sure tire of reading through unimaginative serial posts that resemble a cross between the Abuse and Argument departments in Monty Python's "Argument Clinic" skit. To me, that poses a much more difficult problem because a lot of useful content gets discarded.
I know some posters are more prone to gratuitous insults than others, but I can't think of many whose posts are so devoid of content that I would say "good riddance" if they were exiled. Forgive me, but I view posts rather like the SCOTUS views pornography - they need to be devoid of redeeming content, not merely light on it.
I do like the idea of queue prioritization. Perhaps we can also use our moral suasion to stop the posting of permutations of thread titles. Of late, those permutations have pushed more substantive topics off the front pages than any political content, but I admit to being a politard, so maybe I'm viewing this with blinders.
In any case, I am exceedingly grateful to CMac and ST for the existence and maintenance of this site. For all the noise, there's still an awful lot of signal.
John
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Dec 12, 2014 - 10:43pm PT
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Heck, i think eveyone should have to show ID at the door.
maybe even provide a credit card #. For the possibility of being fined for personal slander?
atleast a SSN#.
Who knows, maybe an Alien or a Chinese girl is posing as Bridwell?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Dec 12, 2014 - 10:47pm PT
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Too late? I don't think so. If CMac genuinely wants to change the site ambiance, which as I've said above would require (1) a clear set of written posting guidelines and (2) a determination to moderate in a way that makes those guidelines stick, then I think change would be relatively easy. There are loads of moderated sites on the internet that thrive under such circumstances, including some climbing sites, so the claim that such an approach would destroy this site is nonsense.
It would change it of course but that would be the point, right? Perhaps there are some folks who, for example, discover that they really aren't interested in conversing if, let's say, they have to be civil about their disagreements. They would be lost, but there would be gains of people who might now be put off by the acrimony. I'd guess the place would be more like what CMac has in mind, and I personally don't equate vitality with rudeness and profanity, so it seems plausible that things would go on in many ways as before.
To emphasize the fork in the road, shut down the climber's forum for a short period so that all you see if you click on that tab is the posting guidelines, then open it up again and make sure folks understand you mean business.
Personally, I simply don't participate in the contentious OT SuperTopo threads, because as I've said before, I already learned from rec.climbing what kind of person I do not want to be. And it is certainly discouraging to see good climbing content disappear in a flash under the weight of things that can (and certainly should) be debated elsewhere; I can't see why anyone needs Supertopo for those discussions. So I find myself wandering off to other places, but always checking back to see if anyone has momentarily come to their senses over here, and indeed they always do, and when that happens the place has and will continue to be worth a visit, changed or not.
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thebravecowboy
climber
walking, resin-stained, towards the goal
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Dec 12, 2014 - 10:47pm PT
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forum goals? you mean we're stuck on this boat together? s'pose I'll stop carving toothpicks then.
Blue, you're killin' me.
EDIT: Are we seriously talking about AMBIANCE here? Really? Like some potted ferns with fake soil and a some nice decoupage with Laurence Welk on the PA would change things? Folks post photos of feces (faecae?) here with regularity. Is there a spray for my mind to make it go away?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 12, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
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scrubbing bubbles with the Canadian Assassin slam. wheeeeeee!
Where's Ted?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Dec 12, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
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did they have SSN# when The Bird was born???
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jonnyrig
climber
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Dec 12, 2014 - 11:26pm PT
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Do you think change will bring back those who've left? You know, the ones whose content you miss? The ones who, when they left, it was a shame?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Dec 12, 2014 - 11:28pm PT
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Ya! Maybe Hillrat will come back.. ;)
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Dec 13, 2014 - 04:27am PT
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you got me ... roped me in ..
..Pate Thank you
I too am
All In
two to get through.
One each gender and that is the curve the two paths are the same and so different.
and if more moderation comes will oregano come then too???what auto correct!!
See it is a good outlet for stupid but if all that is washed out, then the sum of the whole will suffer.((my auto correct is fighting back. what rgld,said...))
do I have to pass the English language ? Is there a test that all will take? we should be glad , be careful what you wish for!! who is this fish and should we be worried or just a bit more respectful??
I was not going to say that crazy is good and should stay but...
Crazy can be funny and the force of the Topo is it's Mass....keep it all going chaos as usual !!
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Dec 13, 2014 - 04:46am PT
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Has no one told Chris about the marmot?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 13, 2014 - 07:30am PT
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This is revealing. How many STers are morons still wanting to play
pat-a-cake as adults?
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