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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Oh Ron
what have you been smoking?
1.25 MIL people die in auto accidents here in the us annually.
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Byran
climber
San Jose, CA
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1.25 million is (roughly) the annual traffic-related death rate worldwide
Here are the stats for the United States, straight from the National Highway Traffic Safety Admin
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
Last year had 33,561 deaths.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Don't bother hillbilly dipshits with facts.
It just annoys them, and makes you look silly for trying.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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regarding the platitude up-thread that 30% of child-soldiers are girls
I don't give a fukk about the gender of children-soldiers, nor should you.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Im willing to bet NONE of you bawling over guns has even slightly been affected yourselves by gun violence I call your bluff Ron.
I know four people who've killed themselves with firearms.
The first man who gave me a summer job mowing and trimming his garden. With a revolver.
An ex Utah Highway Patrolman turned attorney with his service revolver.
Both of these men were good friends of my family when I was a teenager. I knew them both well.
In 2006 my female friend and neighbor with a shotgun, in her house, with her husband at home.
Last year a 21 year old boy who went to school with my son. With a rifle in his garage. With his parents upstairs.
I see his parents at least once a month.
My neighbors on the fire company had to deal with these two tragedies.
Don't try to tell me the survivors of these suicides, whom I see regularly, are not daily affected by gun deaths.
I know another neighbor who shot a teenaged neighbor boy for breaking into his cabin and having a party with friends. Shot him in the back as he ran away. Fortunately he survived, still has the bullet in his back next to his spine. I know the neighbor boy's father.
I guess this kid goes into your "the one that got away" category.
And I've never lived on the "wrong side of town".
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nobody wants to 'disarm' you, hillbilly...except for the little troll that runs around your paranoid brain.
Unless, of course, you put an Uzi in the hands of an 8 y/o. Then we'll all have our fingers crossed that you wind up like the 'instructor' in the OP's example.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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1.25 million is (roughly) the annual traffic-related death rate worldwide
Here are the stats for the United States, straight from the National Highway Traffic Safety Admin
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
Last year had 33,561 deaths.
Yeah, they should outlaw cars.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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HighTraverse, I am so sorry to hear about those incidents. Very, very sad.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Yeah, they should outlaw cars. Great red herring. But a fail.
Everyone recognizes a car can be a deadly weapon when used by someone immature, untrained or mentally incapacitated by intoxicants. Every nation regulates their usage.
Cars are highly regulated. In all US states.
You have to be of a reasonable (in most states) minimum age to drive them.
Most states require you to demonstrate competence in driving skills and understanding the driving laws.
The owner must be insured for liability for damage to others.
You are obliged to follow complex and sometimes "onerous" driving laws.
If you are convicted of DUI you can lose your license.
If you carelessly run over and kill someone you can be sent to state prison.
The car is licensed by the state to it's owner from the time it is first sold till it goes to the wrecking yard.
I believe on the whole these are reasonable regulations that protect society. It doesn't mean I want to take your car away.
Unless you run over and kill someone.
License firearms from manufacturer to scrapyard. License those who use them. Keep them out of the hands of children unless under strict adult supervision. Require all owners to carry liability insurance.
Take the gun away if you're convicted of a violent crime, whether or not gun related.
I don't even have a problem with well-regulated open carry laws as California had until the Supreme Nutcases had their say. You could get an open carry license if you could convince a County Sheriff (any county, not even yours) that you needed to carry.
Agree to nationwide policies that do these things and I'll STFU.
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crankster
Trad climber
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And ill make any and all of you anti gun freaks a deal.. IF you can dissarm me, you can have my guns.. But i guarantee the democratic party will take a huge hit in voters.
After a period of repentance for offending every person within reading distance, the Moron Known As Ron has returned. Only worse.
Hospital whites or Prison jumps, it's just a matter of time.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Thanks HT for pointing out the stupid idea that cars are analogous to guns.
Reminds me of when MB1 tried to correlate that if we can't even keep prisoneers in prison safe from harm, how can we expect to keep young kids in schools safe from harm.
All the same, right?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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License firearms from manufacturer to scrapyard. License those who use them. Keep them out of the hands of children unless under strict adult supervision. Require all owners to carry liability insurance.
Take the gun away if you're convicted of a violent crime, whether or not gun related.
I don't even have a problem with well-regulated open carry laws as California had until the Supreme Nutcases had their say. You could get an open carry license if you could convince a County Sheriff (any county, not even yours) that you needed to carry.
I agree with all of these, HT. Shocking!
I would prefer to see states be "shall issue" rather than "prove you need it (to somebody)," but I'm all in favor of much stricter training, evaluation-for-competency, and know-the-law testing before that "shall issue" gets triggered. And I think that open-carry should need a CCW (shall-issue); that way, whether you carry open or concealed is a convenience/tactical decision rather than yahoos running around open because they cannot muster the CCW.
It IS a huge responsibility to be packing, and there ought to be some structured societal review. At that point, people would not be freaking out to see people packing, any more than they do with cops, because they would know that anybody packing had paid a significant price to do so.
We are too many people, generally too closely packed together, to be the wild-wild-west at this point. But anybody that wants to undergo the necessary review should be able to care for his/her own self-defense rather than be forced to proxy it off.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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The amount of people that use cars on a daily basis compared to those that use guns an a daily basis aren't in the same ballpark
Then factor in how many people try to maim or kill someone with a gun as compared to a car.
A lot of deaths with either, but one isn't trying to.
Quit trying to compare premeditated killings to accidents.
Edit,
We are too many people, generally too closely packed together
Good point Madbolter1, that would carry over to both cars and gun.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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has even slightly been affected yourselves by gun violence
One of my best friends was neighbors with the little girl whose name Obama couldn't pronounce from Sandy Hook - his son was her playmate.
My childhood friend (age 2 - 9 years) shot himself in high school.
A prominant local in Idyllwild shot themselves a while back very soon after I'd talked to them.
Officer Daniel S. Bessant was not only a childhood friend and volunteer for youth programs at my church, his family was very close with my parents and we went to his funeral in 2006 after a gang youth shot him while he was checking on the locals (he was a GREAT cop).
A kid in my English class shot himself shortly after graduation (depression).
A 'friend' of mine has very, very dark thoughts and owns many, many weapons. He has assaulted someone with a deadly weapon in the past - good boys at the military slapped him on the wrist, so these days he just illegally guns down Coyotes. Military f*#ked him up something feirce.
I apologize if this sounds crass, but f*#k you. Really, f*#k you. There's a reason we are livid about gun violence.
Edit - I keep remembering more and getting more upset. Going to stop and go to bed. sigh.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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And ill make any and all of you anti gun freaks a deal.. IF you can dissarm me, you can have my guns..
At a gym I train at an ex pro fighter does classes for armed and special forces on weapons safety, with rubber guns. How to be on either end of a situation when someone has a concealed weapon. One guy has come in a good 5-6 times for private sessions, he's JUST NOW getting to the point where an out-of-shape light heavyweight can't take his weapon at 15 feet.
I love those classes, love watching and seeing the intricacies of the technique and drilling aspects of firearm safety into muscle memory. It also lets me know that having a weapon and not BEING a weapon is a very, very bad idea. If you can carry a concealed weapon and haven't been PROPERLY trained on armed combat, then EVERYONE is carrying a concealed weapon - they just have to grab you first : /
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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I apologize if this sounds crass, but f*#k you. Really, f*#k you. There's a reason we are livid about gun violence.
Personally, I truly get what you are saying.
I've had friends killed execution/gangland style. Had they been armed, they would have at least had a fighting chance.
I've personally defended myself with a gun twice (in the dimly distant past, not since I've started carrying recently). In both cases I was just a normal guy trying to do my job (in one case) and get to work (in the other case). I wasn't some bad guy out looking for trouble, and I wasn't involved "in the lifestyle."
Criminals having guns is a serious, serious problem; and it is only increasingly widespread. That is the primary issue that must be addressed before you are going to get a lot of "gun nuts" to mellow out. Literally, the reason I'm packing now is an armed robbery across the street from our office in a good part of town. We're at the office into the wee hours regularly, and we've heard altercations in the parking lot.
The bottom line is that as long as there is a use/need for a gun as adequate self-defense, normal people are going to carry guns. That fact that some misuse them (particularly in suicides) is indeed tragic. The struggle is to differentiate legitimate gun carrying from problem gun ownership. Sadly, there is no solid litmus test that can differentiate the two in advance of misuse.
So, I'm definitely in favor of laws that will tend to make gun carrying as responsible as possible. But I'm also enough of a realist about human nature to be quite confident that there is no "solution" to the problem of gun violence. Criminals WILL continue to have them, and that is the root of the legitimate desire on the part of many to also have them.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I've had friends killed execution/gangland style. Had they been armed, they would have at least had a fighting chance.
You and Johnny enjoy your hypotheticals, the rest of us will live in reality.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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I was talking about violent actions. IE Robberies, attempted murders , self defense etc
Thanks for making a point about the defferences between car deaths and gun deaths.
Deaths by either are not exceptable.
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