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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 08:16pm PT
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Jim, my consistent theme that runs from the Sherpas to Okinawa to the settlers of the Old West is defense of the small people and the powerless against outside moneyed interests. And yes of course, that includes the Native Americans as well.
All sides in the settling of the old West were caught up in movements that were larger than themselves that they didn't understand. There was needess brutality by both sides, and the outcome was determined by superior technology only. Those who won were not more daring or brave or ferocious than those they defeated.
It's also a fact that a lot of the animosity that developed between American colonists and Natives was the result of French, British, and yes, Canadian meddling. Read about the Native Americans employed by the British and French Canadians to attack New England and the Midwest during the French and Indian War and later the American Revolution. At one point in time, the British even paid Natives for American scalps.
Right or wrong however, history has happened, yet the feds are still sending out the cavalry whether in Nevada or the Pine Ridge Reservation. Being surprised by the local reaction however, it now seems they are going to round up bank accounts instead of cows, which would have been the smart solution to begin with.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 12, 2014 - 08:17pm PT
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Well now!
(Yes I know that is a deep subject).
I got onto this strange thread a little slowly last night, and did not get around to posting my prediction about the outcome of this clusterfuk, until post #88. (I had the same prediction for the outcome in post #4 in the competing thread on ST).
Apr 11, 2014 - 07:43pm PT
It's great that some-----of you Fox-News loving conservatives are so fired-up about allowing this tax-dodging, fee-dodging, and court-order dodging rancher to destroy public lands by over-grazing his illegal cows.
Is this your vision for America?
(I've been predicting the old-bastard will win, but not if some gun-nut starts killing BLM Rangers.)
Posting here with the right-wingers was a gud!! substitute for the Friday Night Posting While Drunk thread.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Apr 12, 2014 - 08:21pm PT
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It sounds like a bunch of the gun toting kooks have showed up to have their pictures taken by the FBI.
Tim McVeigh was there protesting during the Waco siege. His name doesn't go down very well around here.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
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Well right or wrong, I personally find it refreshing that finally there are some Americans riled up enough about something to protest, rather than remain apathetic as they have been since the 1960's.
A new slogan perhaps? - My protest right or wrong.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 12, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
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Ed Abby had an opinion about cattle on public lands that I lean towards, but don't fully endorse:
“Overgrazing is much too weak a term. Most of the public lands in the West, and especially in the Southwest, are what you might call “cowburnt.” Almost anywhere and everywhere you go in the American West you find hordes of these ugly, clumsy, stupid, bawling, stinking, fly-covered, sh#t-smeared, disease-spreading brutes. They are a pest and a plague. They pollute our springs and streams and rivers. They infest our canyons, valleys, meadows, and forests. They graze off the native bluestem and grama and bunch grasses, leaving behind jungles of prickly pear. They trample down the native forbs and shrubs and cacti. They spread the exotic cheatgrass, the Russian thistle, and the crested wheat grass. Weeds.
“I… suggest that we open a hunting season on range cattle. I realize that beef cattle will not make sporting prey at first. Like all domesticated animals (including most humans), beef cattle are slow, stupid, and awkward. But the breed will improve if hunted regularly. And as the number of cattle is reduced, other and far more useful, beautiful, and interesting animals will return to the range lands and will increase.”
(From “Free Speech: The Cowboy and His Cow,” 1985.)
Thanks to the below website!
Read more: http://coyot.es/crossing/2014/04/11/ed-abbey-on-cliven-bundy/#ixzz2yinqR5DP
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John M
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 08:43pm PT
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Well right or wrong, I personally find it refreshing that finally there are some Americans riled up enough about something to protest, rather than remain apathetic as they have been since the 1960's.
did you forget the occupy movement? did you forget the marches against the Iraq war?
So today the feds released all 400 head of cattle that they confiscated, proving that they didn't kill any of them nor did they use backhoes to bury them. Something those people in the videos were screaming about.
with these people its just one lie after another.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
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Parasols at High Noon?
Why don't we all just blame the Brits and call it a day?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
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Why did the settlers need guns?
-To hunt for food
-To defend against animals
-To defend against Indians-
-To defend against a lot of bad white guys who headed out West, especially after the Civil War
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
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If Nevada upsets you so,, please feel free to stay the hell out. Leave our crags, our cities and towns alone.
Sweet! Does this mean we won't be seeing you in Woodfords anytime soon, since we all know how bad California upsets you?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
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Jim, I had to mumble my way through the pledge of allegiance and the Lord's prayer in public schools in Texas without anything so pleasing as the young Queen Elizabeth to look at. As far as anthems go, at least yours is easier to sing.
However, I still can't understand if you have your own constitution now, why the Queen is still on your stamps and money?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:17pm PT
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Bravo Ron for the tour de force explanation and opinion. Base, as he often is, is wrong, there are other producing oil fields past and present in the state and virtually the whole state is staked by mega mining companies.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:18pm PT
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Well at least the Brits didn't steal the Canadian sense of humor!
I'm rolling in the aisles here.
But I wonder if Robin William sang that song before or after John Belushi decided to invade Canada for being too orderly and clean?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:24pm PT
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As for the Indians, God and guns. They had the Great Spirit which carries a lot less baggage and they got guns as soon as they could.
To push all buttons while I'm at it, I did read something very interesting from an old Inuit/Eskimo who told researchers that wolves did use to kill a lot of Inuit and Indians until they got guns and then the wolves learned to fear them and left them alone.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:35pm PT
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Not so fast.
You're the smart ones who sent free wolves to Wyoming and Montana.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:40pm PT
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Ya know, leadership in the States is pretty poor. Get young William on the throne with some bad azz leadership and maybe we Yanks will sign back on to the kingdom (just for fun, we'd still keep our guns).
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:48pm PT
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I could go for Princess Kate on our money. She's better looking than a buffalo.
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jstan
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:49pm PT
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Nevada ranching family claims victory as U.S. government releases cattle
BY JENNIFER DOBNER
BUNKERVILLE, Nevada Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:16pm EDT
(Reuters) - U.S. officials ended a stand-off with hundreds of armed protesters in the Nevada desert on Saturday, calling off the government's roundup of cattle it said were illegally grazing on federal land and giving about 300 animals back to the rancher who owned them.
The dispute less than 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas between rancher Cliven Bundy and the U.S. Bureau of Land Management had simmered for days. Bundy had stopped paying fees for grazing his cattle on the government land and officials said he had ignored court orders.
Anti-government groups, right-wing politicians and gun-rights activists camped around Bundy's ranch to support him, in a standoff that tapped into long-simmering anger in Nevada and other Western states, where vast tracts of land are owned and governed by federal agencies.
The bureau had called in a team of armed rangers to Nevada to seize the 1,000 head of cattle on Saturday but backed down in the interests of safety.
"Based on information about conditions on the ground and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," the bureau's director, Neil Kornze, said in a statement.
The protesters, who at the height of the standoff numbered about 1,000, met the news with applause. Then they quickly advanced on the metal pens where the cattle confiscated earlier in the week were being held.
After consultations with the rancher's family, the bureau decided to release the cattle it had rounded up, and the crowd began to disperse.
"This is what I prayed for," said Margaret Houston, one of Bundy's sisters. "We are so proud of the American people for being here with us and standing with us."
A number of Bundy's supporters, who included militia members from California, Idaho and other states, dressed in camouflage and carried rifles and sidearms. During the stand-off, some chanted "open that gate" and "free the people."
A man who identified himself as Scott, 43, said he had traveled from Idaho along with two fellow militia members to support Bundy.
"If we don't show up everywhere, there is no reason to show up anywhere," said the man, dressed in camouflage pants and a black flak jacket crouched behind a concrete highway barrier, holding an AR-15 rifle. "I'm ready to pull the trigger if fired upon," Scott said.
LONG-SIMMERING ANGER
The dispute between Bundy and federal land managers began in 1993 when he stopped paying monthly fees of about $1.35 per cow-calf pair to graze public lands that are also home to imperiled animals such as the Mojave Desert tortoise. The government also claims Bundy has ignored cancellation of his grazing leases and defied federal court orders to remove his cattle.
"We won the battle," said Ammon Bundy, one of the rancher's sons.
Hundreds of Bundy supporters, some heavily armed, had camped on the road leading to his ranch in a high desert spotted with sagebrush and mesquite trees. Some held signs reading "Americans united against government thugs," while others were calling the rally the "Battle of Bunkerville," a reference to a American Revolutionary War battle of Bunker Hill in Boston.
The large crowd at one point blocked all traffic on Interstate 15. Later, as lanes opened up, motorists honked to support the demonstrators and gave them a thumbs-up sign.
In an interview prior to the bureau's announcement, Bundy said he was impressed by the level of support he had received.
"I'm excited that we are really fighting for our freedom. We've been losing it for a long time," Bundy said.
An official with an environmental group that had notified the government it would sue unless federal land managers sought to protect tortoises on the grazing allotment used by Bundy's cattle expressed outrage at the end of the cattle roundup.
"The sovereign militias are ruling the day," said Rob Mrowka, senior scientist with the Center for Biological Diversity. "Now that this precedent has been set and they're emboldened by the government's capitulation, what's to stop them from applying the same tactics and threats elsewhere?"
Roger Taylor, retired district manager with the Bureau of Land Management in Arizona, also said the agency's decision to release the cattle will have repercussions.
"The (agency) is going to be in a worse situation where they will have a much more difficult time getting those cattle off the land and getting Bundy in compliance with regulations," he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/13/us-usa-ranchers-nevada-idUSBREA3B03Q20140413
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
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Wounded Knee 1891
If you're an artist, you can draw your own conclusions
Wounded Knee 1973
During the 71 day occupation, two AIM supporters were killed and a deputy marshal wounded.
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