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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jun 28, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
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It would also eliminate the need for war-like USA to invade another muslim country.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jun 28, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
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Not only do you not care, you have virtue and honor and all kind of ritious stuff piled on top of killing. My only point is that this is entirely true, by your own admission, which renders abasurd any arguments or discussions about the subject, seeming that the outcome will always issue direcly from your conviction that "some people need a killing."
For the killing to ever stop, this conviction will have to change - we can easily see why.
In the meantime, believing as you do, there is no reason to get upset about Americans getting shot up in Pakistan because you've already said "you don't care."
So around and around we go . . .
JL
Do you believe in the concept of inherent evil, John? Bad people? It's is a common human trait to understand that preying/killing the innocent is wrong. Most people have that ingrained in their being.
Some don't. Hence, what I call evil.
Aggression is different. It is a trait that is NECESSARILY to survival! It is good! It is instilled in us to aid us when we need to defend ourselves from the 'evil' ones, or danger. Sometimes it's o.k. to get mad, or get physical. When required. Sometimes killing is o.k.
The Bible never said, "Thou shalt not kill". It said, "Thou shalt not murder".
Big difference.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jun 28, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
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I'm not argreeing or disagreeing with anyone but....
Absolute or inherent good and evil is an artificial distinction formulated by the human mind in the context of religion and society.
Truly, there is no inherent "good" in an absolute sense. There is no inherent evil.
There just "is."
In the context of society, I am all for manufacturing and defining distinctions between good and evil.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Jun 28, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
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evil is not a native condition, people are basically good
evil is a contagion of unfortunate circumstances bringing good people to perform evil actions
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jun 28, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
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What if they put people in em Ron.. does that make you feel better?.. and if so why?.. and if so why weren't you upset about aerial surveillance/combat the last 60 years?
Drones don't bother me much. The MISSION of an aircraft of any type is what matters.
Seriously, did this ever bother you? Ok well maybe that would have.. lol
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jun 28, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
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I Don't much care for Police choppers flying around all the time either but I suspect we are going to be stuck with larger cities using long duration flight observation drones. Just cheaper to operate I'm sure.
Hey you might appreciate this one though.. hehe
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jun 28, 2013 - 11:08pm PT
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My take on Islamic fundamentalism is simple. It is chest thumping/alpha males aggressiveness rationalized with religious pretexts.
I think you can swap out Islamic Fundamentalism and religious pretexts and apply this equation to most any aggressive act. We Americans have used horrific aggression pimping "democracy" under pretext of "promoting freedom." So long it is or our choosing and meets our criteria.
JL
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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Jun 29, 2013 - 12:24am PT
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Concerning my point that:
"My take on Islamic fundamentalism is simple. It is chest thumping/alpha males aggressiveness rationalized with religious pretexts."
Largo responded:
"I think you can swap out Islamic Fundamentalism and religious pretexts and apply this equation to most any aggressive act."
So we agree.
I also agree with Tom Cochrane who wrote:
"evil is not a native condition, people are basically good
evil is a contagion of unfortunate circumstances bringing good people to perform evil actions"
Maybe Tom is a Buddhist (by default) like me.
Perhaps Ron Anderson suffers from what historians call: "American Exceptionalism." To wit: The self-serving belief of Americans that they are different (and superior) to all other countries, nations, governments, etc.
Anthropolists use the term "ethnocentrism" for this universal human trait to attribute superiority to one's own group. For example, in many languages, the word for human and people is often the same as the group-in-question's name for itself; with all others being just that: "other than human." For example, in Navajo, "Dine" means "human;" it's also the Navajo name for their own tribe.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 12:54am PT
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I think you can swap out Islamic Fundamentalism and religious pretexts and apply this equation to most any aggressive act. We Americans have used horrific aggression pimping "democracy" under pretext of "promoting freedom." So long it is or our choosing and meets our criteria.
JL
No, you're equivocating again, It does not stand. Denying a rise in Islamic aggression is naive,
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 09:59am PT
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if muslims extremists wanted to come and get us,
it would have been over and done long ago
they would have won
period
anyone complaining they are a threat are just pussies who learned how to cry like wefare queens and now get their kicks providing the wanker backdrop to corperate owned reps sending welfare to defense contractors who life off scaring old and dump people
"death by a thousand cuts" is their motto, not full-frontal assault. They know we are too strong.
They slowly weaken us through infiltration, pacification, political correctness. Coupled with the occasional Beslan School, Boston bombing, or underwear bomb.
Perhaps Ron Anderson suffers from what historians call: "American Exceptionalism." To wit: The self-serving belief of Americans that they are different (and superior) to all other countries, nations, governments, etc.
You can put me in that camp as well. I think we have a good, albeit relatively short, track record of being exceptional...and good. (Yeah, we get things wrong sometimes, but it's always comes back to intent).
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 29, 2013 - 10:37am PT
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American Exceptionalism......American Hubris.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
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American Exceptionalism......American Hubris.
You can call it "hubris" if you must. We are indeed a very proud and bold country. But we usually issue our power with the utmost humility and benevolence. As it should be.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
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Bluering, you need to get out of the country to see what the rest of the world thinks of this so-called humility and benevolence.
Randisi, how many times do I need to inform you guys I have LIVED in 3 foreign countries from Europe to Asia to Southeast Asia, and as a result have been to over a dozen countries from Africa, Asia, Australia, to Europe.
Yeah, I've seen it.
This is the best thing going. Couldn't wait to come home.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
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This is the best thing going. Couldn't wait to come home.
And why is the rest of the world trying to move here? Those Talibanis can't wait to get here
and get a 7-11 franchise.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 29, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
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Ron:
I have served this country and put myself in harms way.
I have been to over 50 countries and am well aware of how others live.
I am proud of being a citizen of a country with over two centuries of continuous democracy.
I love to travel but consider myself lucky to have been born in the one place I wish to live.
but
Love of country is not blind.
Nazi German exceptionalisim should serve as a warning.
I do not suscribe to...." My country, right or wrong, my country."
the true patriot wants to
Nurture that which is good and identify and seek to improve that which isn't.
because
A true patriot wants his country to be the very best and constantly getting BETTER for EVERYONE.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
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And why is the rest of the world trying to move here? Those Talibanis can't wait to get here
and get a 7-11 franchise.
The "Talibanis" are 7th Century perverts who screw little boys for a good time. They have no concept of the 'modern world'. And we sit around talking about "women's rights", or "gay rights".
They spit on you!
These goat-fuxkers do not comprehend "our world". What to do?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 29, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
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Christians sure got good at lynching blacks. I'll bet you would be hard pressed to find a KKK member who didn't consider themselves good Christians.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jun 29, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
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yes bluering christians do this and they take pictures of it. Then they do even worse things.
Course it depends how you define christian.
Lesson about labels .. including "muslim"
Perhaps instead of labels we should consider humans one at a time.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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Jun 30, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
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Bluering: This thread has seriously drifted so I'll add another OT stir.
I too share many of the sentiments in your last post re: America is the best thing going. My experiences in Colombia as a 21 year old taught me a lot about myself and why I fit into America better than third world countries of any stripe. So around this electronic/virtual campfire I can agree with most all participants on parts of their discourse. Especially Donini's explanation of patriotism. "A true patriot wants his country to be the very best and constantly getting BETTER for EVERYONE."
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