Ex-cop exchanges fire with authorities: Report

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graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 14, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
Nevermind Django's original grievance, which if true, makes the cops in L.A. look like low-rent gangsters. That was rendered moot the minute he pointed a gun at his first victim.

Not moot. Some mentally ill guy got kicked in the face. He's still around.

Also, the LAPD is still "tooling" any of its officers that blow the whistle on other cases. They did this before Dorner, and they're doing it now.

If everyone person the LAPD tooled acted like Dorner did, there wouldn't anyone left alive in LA.

Then again, between now and the end of year, the LAPD is going to kill more people in suspicious circumstances then Dorner killed.

Dorner is just one crazy guy who is dead now.

The LAPD is the deadly gift that keeps giving.

How many more Dorners will they spawn?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 14, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
Regarding the definition of terrorism I'll fall back to some old Judge's opinion on pornography; "I can't exactly define it but I know it when I see it..."

Dorner? Not a terrorist. Just a sociopathic murdering freak.

Ft Hood? Yes. And why the hell should a bunch of soldiers on their way to war, who get shot up by someone who openly professed many times to sympathize with the enemy, be deprived of purple heart medals and the benefits which come from being wounded in combat? Are we that small?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 14, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
Purple heart medals and the benefits for everyone! Why not?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 14, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
Purple heart medals and the benefits for everyone! Why not?

Jeez, that's pretty obviously not what I said.

WTF??
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 14, 2013 - 11:41pm PT
Mr Milktoast writes:

"That Django crap is WAY CRACKER."


I never connected the two until I heard it from THIS guy: ( at about the 1:00 mark )

[Click to View YouTube Video]

He may be a lot of things, but cracker, he isn't.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 15, 2013 - 12:06am PT
It's an old school fact of life that if you kill a cop, you too are going to die. It's the epitome of ignorance to think the cops would be careful to capture the cop killer without a scratch. That dude was doomed. Wonder what percentage of cop killers are actually captured?

JL
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 15, 2013 - 12:11am PT
I'd like to see the sheriff come out and say "Yeah, we burned down the building specifically intending to kill the guy inside. We were firing bullets into the building hoping to accomplish the same thing. We figured fire would be much more effective."

But seeing the stupid fool lie during his press confrences makes me lose all respect for him, and for the department he heads. He thinks we're stupid.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 15, 2013 - 12:38am PT
It's an old school fact of life that if you kill a cop, you too are going to die. It's the epitome of ignorance to think the cops would be careful to capture the cop killer without a scratch. That dude was doomed. Wonder what percentage of cop killers are actually captured?

Translation: Cops will murder with impunity when they want to.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 15, 2013 - 01:17am PT
Jim, I don't think you know what logic is. That's OK. You don't really need it. So long as you can cut a board straight and hammer on the nail, that's all you need to know. Carry on.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 15, 2013 - 01:34am PT
GC writes:

"Translation: Cops will murder with impunity when they want to."


So will everybody else.

That's why we have a police force, to keep those who have been victimized from taking retribution into their hands. A measure of separation is never a bad thing between two emotional foes.

If I found out who stole my last rack, or my last bicycle ( or any of my other bikes stolen previously ), or my last crop of avocados, I'd like nothing more than to burn down the mother f*#ker's house with him inside ( and shoot the bastard if he tries to leave ). That would please me very much.

But we can't have that and have a society at the same time.

What do we do when the cops are the victims? How do we put that sanity buffer between cops and someone who has a beef with cops?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 15, 2013 - 01:40am PT
If I found out who stole my last rack, or my last bicycle ( or any of my other bikes stolen previously ), or my last crop of avocados, I'd like nothing more than to burn down the mother f*#ker's house with him inside ( and shoot the bastard if he tries to leave ). That would please me very much.

I get angry just like everyone else.

But I've never wanted to kill someone for sealing anything.

Also, feeling like you would like to kill someone and actually doing it are two different things.

If we actually killed anytime we wanted to and could get away with it, there wouldn't be too many people left. Most people are able to show self-restraint, and we should expect the same of cops.

It used to be culturally accepted that anyone suspected of a crime like murder could be lynched. We dont' have that anymore, but we still have a culture of acceptance when it comes to cops killing suspected co-killers.

It's really just another form of lynching. Many of the victims are probably guilty and "deserve" to die, but without a trial we'll never know for sure.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 15, 2013 - 01:58am PT
It's an old school fact of life that if you kill a cop, you too are going to die. It's the epitome of ignorance to think the cops would be careful to capture the cop killer without a scratch. That dude was doomed. Wonder what percentage of cop killers are actually captured?

JL

The problem with this, is that it is not always so clear.

How many cases do we see, where the cops kill someone "because we thought he had a gun and was threatening us".....and no gun is found?

Or a gun is found, but it is a throw-away that has been planted?

the problem is, that when we accept routine conspiracy to murder as being an acceptable operating method, we have lost control of due process.

And, we have.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 15, 2013 - 02:42am PT
GC, In case you didn't notice, This guy ran around town shooting dead the offspring of those he meant to kill but hadn't the ability to follow through on the ones he wanted.

That's emotional thinking.

He then while in flight shot dead a peace officer and grievously wounded an other. Then he holed up in a cabin that was luckily uninhabited and refused to surrender.

Where does your take on civil liberties concerning the civil, cross paths with the public good in face of an incorrigible sociopath ?

This guy thought he had morality and social conscience on his side but he didn't think it worth asking someone or anyone what was ethical.

Yes, you're engaging in emotional, irrational thinking.

No one is defending what Dorner is alleged to have done. If he did what they claim he did, he is a homicidal maniac. Also, I have no reason to think that he didn't do what the claim.

If I were a cop, and a lot of people tell me, that you, Jim Brennan, are an "incorrigible sociopath" does that give me the right to kill you?

Do you believe that the the accused always guilty and not deserving of a trial?

The police believed that Dorner was targeting police and their families. This could make it very difficult for them to think rationally.

If you're ACCUSED of murder, would you want the family of the murder victim to have the ability to hunt you down and kill you without any trial?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 15, 2013 - 02:45am PT
]his guy thought he had morality and social conscience on his side but he didn't think it worth asking someone or anyone what was ethical.

Maybe we shouldn't follow his example?

Edit:

Ken M. says it better then I can.

the problem is, that when we accept routine conspiracy to murder as being an acceptable operating method, we have lost control of due process.

And, we have.

Edit: We do not know that happened here, but it is suspicious. I wish their would be an investigation by some other agency, such as the FBI.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 15, 2013 - 03:33am PT
Jim Brennan claims that its illogical and emotional thinking to support civil liberties. He seems to think that anyone accused of being an "incorrigible sociopath" should be killed on sight and withotu a trial.

GC once again takes a point beyond logic, into emotion to a place where reality is something involving feelings.

GC, In case you didn't notice, This guy ran around town shooting dead the offspring of those he meant to kill but hadn't the ability to follow through on the ones he wanted.

That's emotional thinking.

He then while in flight shot dead a peace officer and grievously wounded an other. Then he holed up in a cabin that was luckily uninhabited and refused to surrender.

Where does your take on civil liberties concerning the civil, cross paths with the public good in face of an incorrigible sociopath ?

This guy thought he had morality and some social conscience on his side but he didn't think it worth asking someone or anyone what was ethical.

I ask if Jim Brennan would want his same lack of logic applied to him:

No one is defending what Dorner is alleged to have done. If he did what they claim he did, he is a homicidal maniac. Also, I have no reason to think that he didn't do what the claim.

If I were a cop, and a lot of people tell me, that you, Jim Brennan, are an "incorrigible sociopath" does that give me the right to kill you?

Do you believe that the the accused always guilty and not deserving of a trial?

The police believed that Dorner was targeting police and their families. This could make it very difficult for them to think rationally.

If you're ACCUSED of murder, would you want the family of the murder victim to have the ability to hunt you down and kill you without any trial?

Jim Brennan can't read.

Jim Brennan can't think.

Jim Brennan can't control himself.

So you think I'm a sociopath ?

You should make your case and be willing to take it to open court.

Otherwise you have just made yourself open to a libel suit as befitting someone who thought printing an opinion casually equals free speech.

Go F*#k Your Self,D#@&%e...

No Jim Brennan. I did not say you were a sociopath. I didn't even say that I THINK that.

Jim, I don't need to say that you don't know how to read, because you just proved that.

If you hadn't , I'd ask you to go back and re-read what I wrote and try to understand it. But I won't ask you to do that, because you are not able to do that.

But even if I did believe that Jim Brennan was an incorrigible sociopath (which I don't) I'd still support his right to protection under the same civil liberties which he apparently does not believe in and apparently does not believe anyone he hears is an incorrigible sociopath should be able to enjoy.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 15, 2013 - 03:46am PT
Awfully quiet all the sudden great Climber of Granite,

Who do you think you are ?

There is a reality to being a self important entity and that is what you think you say is just something on the internet.

I will follow through on your bullsh#t. You have no Anders and all the academic laziness encumbered to feel comfort through. You are a fraud.

There are many people here who have taken you to the intellectual cleaners and will happily do so again because you are not what you think you are.

Maybe, but you're not one of them.

You'll never be one of them.

Also, I didn't know you felt that way about Mighty Hiker. He's 100x smarter then you, so don't fool yourself.

If I need any nails hammered or lumber sawed, I'll call you, but if I need brains or anything intellectual, I'll call Anders.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 15, 2013 - 03:56am PT
You stated that:

"if I were a cop,and a lot of people tell me,that you, Jim Brennan,are "an incorrigible psychopath" does not give me the right to kill you?

You will not get off for a misplaced emotional comment for that.

You are now accountable for your statement. You have posted this publicly and are now responsible for your statement.

If you are going to try to quote me, please try to get it right. How hard is to to cut and paste? Don't try to re-type it. You'll just f*#k it up, just like you already did.

Try again.

And then answer the question, does it? Obviously not.

But if I were to substitute in "Christopher Dorner" for "Jim Brennan" you'd have a different answer.

I think that one rule should apply to everyone, whether it is Jim Brennan, Christopher Dorner, the Governor, the President, the Pope, or myself: Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 15, 2013 - 04:11am PT
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dorner-fire-20130215,0,5831477.story

This covers both sides.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Feb 15, 2013 - 10:40am PT
Let's say the cops did intentionally set fire to the cabin in order to either flush Dorner out or, if he chose not to come out, burn him up.

What's wrong with that?

Remember the cops were already using deadly force against him by shooting at him while he was in the cabin. The fire was just more effective deadly force.
Seems to me that once a cop is legally using deadly force, they can use whatever it most effective.
My guess is that is in fact what happened, and the cops are somewhat lying about it on general principle.

Edit:
I just read GC's link, wherein one commentator made the same point I wrote above. So my post is kind of redundant:

"What difference does it make if one of the officers puts a … round in his head, drives the armored vehicle over his body when they are knocking the building down, or he dies in a conflagration?" said David Klinger, a use-of-force expert at the University of Missouri at St. Louis and a former LAPD officer. "If he is trying to surrender you can't do any of those things … But if he is actively trying to murder people, there's no doubt that deadly force is appropriate and it doesn't matter what method is used to deliver it."
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2013 - 10:45am PT



Let's say the cops did intentionally set fire to the cabin

It's just bad form, Like preplacing yer draws on a route
Messages 141 - 160 of total 212 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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