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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Whoa Shack. Thats very amusing you didn't know.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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FEAR
REVOLUTION
absurdity
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Alex Jones made so many VERY GOOD points. He acted like an ass hat 5 year old, but did you listen to him? Everything that came out of his mouth made sense.
YES, America has TONS OF GUNS. YES, we have a VERY HIGH firearm murder rate.
People get shot here in gun free zones ALL the time.
Why can nobody in agreement with the second amendment for one second believe that maybe it's not the guns that's killing people, but people who should and need to seek mental health?
Look at history! Really. Governments that take guns from the people, turn into police states.
Criminals break laws. They'll keep their guns. They'll get new ones. There is nothing that can be done about that. Really.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
One more;
[youtube=9NW9bqNHGTc&feature=endscreen]
Guns ARE the last line of defense from a tyrannical government. Who will help us when we give up our guns? It's really sad that not everyone understands this. It's what's killing this country, not the gun itself.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Why can nobody in agreement with the second amendment for one second believe that maybe it's not the guns that's killing people, but people who should and need to seek mental health?
Pretty sure everyone who is for gun control is for better mental health care. It would seem the opposite is not true based on the Republican/Tea bagger voting record.
Why can NOBODY who loves their gun more than life agree that EASY ACCESS to guns makes killing people FAR TOO EASY, regardless of mental health?
Look at history! Really. Governments that take guns from the people, turn into police states.
Look at the proposals, really. Who is talking about TAKING GUNS FROM PEOPLE?
Here is a particularly progun rant... NOT A SINGLE MENTION OF THE GOV TAKING GUNS... something you think they'd include to get GUN people EVEN MORE RILED UP... but they can't, because it ain't true... it is pure fantasy.
http://www.pagunrights.com/2012/11/40-gun-control-proposals-on-white-house-desks/
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Have you lived there?
I have not. But I see enough media showing it is.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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UK and Australia? A police state? HOLY FUK MAN.
I see enough media showing it is.
oh... well then...
Come on man, you seemed pretty reasonable earlier in the thread. Nobody is coming to take your guns. Countries with gun control are NOT police states. Stop watching the "media" and get real.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Look at the proposals, really. Who is talking about TAKING GUNS FROM PEOPLE?
....
And Norton, you're 100% correct.
Sad day, right?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Sad that so many people actually buy into the false reality painted by the gun companies, yes.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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I bought my WASR-4 because it is awesome, and fun to shoot.
I bought my Glock 19 for home defense / conceal carry, and it's fun to shoot.
No gun manufacturer whispered in my ear to buy one because the world was going to end, or the government was going to come and take them. I have them because it's my right. Same reason I own a German Mauser, made in 1942. Or my grandpa's and dad's first .22.
I'm 22 years old, play tons of violent video games, and watch lots of violent movies. Have for some time.
To brighten up this thread, I leave you with this as I depart work to go pull on plastic:
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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You are all wrong.
Or are you?
What are the real facts?
Watch these 2 news reports and you tell me.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
The point is...there has been so much false information, disinformation and piles of conjecture and speculation that I don't think we have really heard the whole truth.
But I'm sure most of you will just go along with whatever MSNBC tells you to believe.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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No, the point is... there were initial reports from irresponsible reporters desperate to get the scoop. That doesn't change the facts.
Note the "live" and "breaking news"... that's the first hint.
Do you think that long gun looks like a bushmaster to you? I don't know sh#t about guns, but I'm pretty sure that is a shotgun.
I go along with the facts as reported by reputable sources, like the Police Lt. You can continue with your conspiracy/misinformation stemming from initial reports and conjecture... tell me again about "just go along with whatever [doesn't matter, as long as you believe it] tells you to believe."
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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You mean like Connecticut's gun laws? I think a better way to state it would be that laws that have the effect of limiting access to the tools of violence reduce violence. The quoted statement has two problems that I see:
1. It doesn't differentiate between laws intended to reduce access and laws that actually do so; and
2. It doesn't tell me what it means by "effective."
Effective = reduces death or injury by guns, 0.1% would be better than doing nothing. 1% would be good, 10% within a decade is probably achievable without confiscating a single gun, or even banning the scary looking ones.
If a law reduces criminal access to guns, it will reduce gun violence. If a law reduces everyone's access to guns, it would reduce gun violence even more, but will not be politically acceptable.
Unfortunately there are many limitations, only Federal laws will be broadly effective, local laws serve only to prove that restrictions don't work. Laws that make actions illegal are mostly ineffective in these cases, but laws that make illegal acts more difficult will be much more effective, and more cost effective. You know, crazy totalitarian laws like making dealers keep better records, checking that people that buy guns aren't already criminals, requiring people to lock up their guns, and telling the police if they've been stolen.
Heck, a PSA with pictures of bleeding children, begging owners to lock up their guns would have some small effect, couldn't hurt.
TE
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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AGAIN: please explain how all the guns in your possession are going to defend against a CIA drone, the US Marines, an Apache Attack Helicopter, or any other damn thing the US government want to use against anyone, including its own citizens?
How can you be so naive as to think you or anyone else at Ruby Ridge can "defend"?
if our government wants YOU dead, you won't hear or see it coming, get it yet?
Norton, have a little imagination. Didn't you ever see Red Dawn? ;) or how about Waco? They put up a hell of a defense.
and don't make the extremely naive assumption that if the government turns Fascist or into an Obama Dictatorship for example, that it would just be one or a few against the government.
You are aware that there are between 50 and 80 million gun owners in the US., right?
and obviously were all crazy.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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You know, crazy totalitarian laws like making dealers keep better records, checking that people that buy guns aren't already criminals, requiring people to lock up their guns, and telling the police if they've been stolen.
ABSURD! OUTRAGEOUS! I HAVE RIGHTS! THIS IS UHMERIKUH! We need a quote from a founding father... hurry, I'm starting to hyperventilate.
Heck, a PSA with pictures of bleeding children, begging owners to lock up their guns would have some small effect, couldn't hurt.
That's bad for business.
They put up a hell of a defense.
OMG! Proud.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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there were initial reports from irresponsible reporters desperate to get the scoop
The first clip I posted is from the day after...not an initial report and the reporter claims the info was confirmed with federal and state officials.
I guess you chose not to hear that part.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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crazy totalitarian laws like making dealers keep better records, checking that people that buy guns aren't already criminals, requiring people to lock up their guns, and telling the police if they've been stolen.
FYI, that is exactly how California's laws are currently and most other states too.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Shack, you are incredibly naive for an adult to believe some movies you watched are relevant.
You and 22 year old Michael just don't get it, do you?
It doesn't make any difference how many angry citizens with guns up their ass when the government has nerve gas, Marines, Drones, F-22s, and conventional bombs that disintegrated Iraq in hours
you live in a movie fantasy world, time to grow up
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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"Some new information from a couple of federal officials... and uh... state officials.... four handguns and apparently only handguns... told by several officials"
Notice not a SINGLE name was given. For fuk sakes dude, they were cleaning up the bodies of 20 kids in a fuking school. You think the information might have been a little muddled between the investigators and the reporters?
I ask you again... does the gun in your second video look like an assault rifle to you?
Pull your head out dude.
The fact is, Adam Lanza used a handgun to take his own life, but he relied on the Bushmaster AR-15 to kill most of the victims. He did use that gun. -from the ultra-liberal "Red State"
http://www.redstate.com/2012/12/27/setting-the-record-straight-adam-lanza-did-use-the-bushmaster-ar-15/
Tell me again about believing only what you want to believe... and choosing not to hear certain FACTS.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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First of all the Red Dawn line was a joke. Notice the Winky face. Geeez.
Sad I have to explain that.
Also sad that you have obviously never cracked a history book or you would know that is not how governments take over control and move to Communism or Fascism or whatever.
You actually think the government is going to send a bomber or drone to target me or something? What in the hell are you talking about?
Look at history and see that every evil empire has started with disarming it's populace.
Here’s a history of what happens after governments have disarmed their citizens:
1911 – Turkey disarmed it’s citizens, and between 1915 – 1917 they murdered 1.5 million Armenians.
1929 – Russia disarmed it’s citizens, and between 1929 – 1953 they murdered 20 million Russians.
1935 – China disarmed it’s citizens, and between 1948 – 1952 they murdered 20 million Chinese.
1938 – Germany disarmed it’s citizens, and between 1939 – 1945 they murdered 16 million Jews.
1956 – Cambodia disarmed it’s citizens, and between 1975 – 1977 they murdered 1 million Educated people.
1964 – Guatamala disarmed it’s citizens, and between 1964 – 1981 they murdered 100,000 Mayan Indians.
1970 – Uganda disarmed it’s citizens, and between 1971 – 1979 they murdered 300,000 Christians.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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1911 – Turkey disarmed it’s citizens, and between 1915 – 1917 they murdered 1.5 million Armenians.
My mother, a 101-year-old survivor of the massacres, says the Young Turk government went so far as to take away their bread knives.
I'm not sure weapons would have saved them, but if the population were armed the way, say, the American colonists were relative to the Red Coats, it may well have deterred the deportations through the Syrian desert without benefit of food and water.
John
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