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Rolfr
Social climber
North Vancouver BC
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Latest news from the Chief , an interview with one of the developers. .http://www.squamishchief.com/article/20120323/SQUAMISH0101/303239957/-1/squamish/gondola-proposal-defended
An interesting quote attributed to Trevor Dunn , one of the principals speaking for the development.
"He said the proponents would be happy to see B.C. Parks officials add two or more hectares to the park to compensate for the loss of the two hectares. "
I don't think that offer would even be on the table, if not for the organized opposition. A good step forward to an equitable solution.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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It's no wonder you can't let go, Bruce. This is like interactive T.V., I mean.... " At least I don't live in West Vancouver".... ouchy.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Shannon Creek Basin Provincial Park: 379.6 hectares. Anders can pull it off. He needs a project to sink his teeth into.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Thank god i live under a rock
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Interesting news, Rolf.
I wonder what two hectares of land the company proposes adding to the park, where? I know the parks and their boundaries fairly well, and can't picture anything that would be anything near equivalent.
"He said the proponents would be happy to see B.C. Parks officials add two or more hectares to the park to compensate for the loss of the two hectares."
It's awful generous of the developers to offer to add land that isn't even theirs to the Parks, isn't it?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Thank god we don't have to listen to gf any more.
I just had a look into the BD Sabertooth crampons thread and learned that:
"GF is another pathetic troll."
That's what Scott Cosgrove said, and Scott's a famous hero climber, so he must be right. Right?
So whatever position gf is advocating here, it is obviously a sleazy sell-out to...
Uhhhmmm. I'm not sure who Greg is selling out to here, but whoever it is, we all now have to be against them.
Whew! That's this issue sorted out.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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"He said the proponents would be happy to see B.C. Parks officials add two or more hectares to the park to compensate for the loss of the two hectares. "
Ha! I take credit for this.
Although I expect Anders will try to tell us that those two hectares would be worthless even for grazing Don Quixote's horse.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I'm just doing what gf tells me to do.
And it's entirely untrue that the two hectares would be used by bmacd as a captive breeding facility for yetis.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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First. I'd like to thank you, Anders, for having the courage and leadership to take on this controversial issue, and commend you for having the integrity to stick to your principles.
Regarding your comment about ingratitude concerning your work with the Climbers Access Society, I offer you my sadly belated thanks for your efforts. If it eases the pain a little bit, I believe that many of us have been involved in rescue situations that sometimes have put our own lives at risk, and it has been my experience that any form of appreciation from the beneficiaries is often completely absent. The human race has to take a long hike before it approaches perfection.
I have made several posts detailing my objections to the gondola proposal, and I remain unmoved by the comments posted by the supporters of this project, however articulately stated.
Let me tell you a true story, and please forgive me if I'm a bit hazy on the specific details. If my memory serves me correctly, it happened about twenty years ago, and if you contact the North Shore Rescue Team (another often unappreciated group of selfless volunteers), they may be able to provide additional information. Here goes:
One day a man and his wife went for a hike in the North Shore Mountains and managed to get lost. Bad weather and darkness closed in and, although a search was started as soon as possible, the wife died but the husband survived. Ho hum. happens all the time. Unfortunately for me, I happened to catch the report on the local news: the somewhat pudgy guy showed the reporters a picture of the two of them in happier days, and the woman who died was a tiny, bespectacled little thing who was smiling and gazing with adoring eyes at her husband. The husband was beyond devastation - if it was possible for someone to die of grief, then this was the guy.
The point of this story that still brings tears to my eyes is that they had no business being up there: no survival gear, no wilderness experience.
As I said - it happens all the time, but this was the first time that I witnessed the aftermath of one of those tragedies, and it has affected ME to this day. I can't begin to imagine what it must be like for that poor fellow to lose such a loving companion, not to mention the relatives of that poor woman.
Many of us have lost friends and loved ones pursuing outdoor activities, but at the very least we can find some consolation in the knowledge that they knew (or should have known) what they were getting themselves into, and that they died doing something that they enjoyed.
Not so with tourists. If this gondola gets built, my other objections aside, these needless deaths will be upon your shoulders.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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I believe this gets partially addressed in the first part of Don's fourth paragraph. Can you really hold back anyone wanting to see the view you have been so fortunate to have seen?
Besides, the modern version of Woz's woman will have her i-phone.
J.H. and the Chief will come grab her; quicker than you can blink.
The most dangerous part of the day will be driving the highway. Same as it ever was.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Seriously I would pay at least $50 or $100US for a gondola from the Black Hills to Waddington. Everytime. Walking to someplace really hard to get to: priceless. Riding the gondola to the same place $99.99 plus tax no blisters necessary.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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This is B.C., we're swimming in places that are hard to get to. And I'm not talking about the backstroke.
Fill your boots.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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This is B.C., we're swimming in places that are hard to get to.
To the point that you have to swim to get to some of those places.
And even if you avoid the swim, your crampons are more important for walking slimy logs across raging rivers than they are for ice and snow.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Admit it, Dave - you love that kind of stuff. I have photos. And you want everyone to share, don't you?
Thanks, Stewart etc - I wasn't looking for sympathy when mentioning climbers' behaviour patterns. Climbers are adolescent males (of all ages and sexes), and behave accordingly. I was simply observing that you get lots of criticism for doing this sort of stuff. I predict that if the proposal is delayed, the developers will say that will prejudice their plans or financing. Then, or if the development is stopped, they'll say that Squamish is unfriendly to developers. (It's grown 50% in the last 20 years.) Plus I'll get grief from the usual suspects. SOP.
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts here, though. It has helped focus the debate.
A Shackleton story might fit better on Big Mike's Squamish thread.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Again with respect, Hamish: I don't have a cell phone, but it is my understanding that batteries can wear down on those things, and probably quickly in bad weather, or a bad, but probably survivable tumble could damage the damn thing, or separate its owner from access to it. Also, it is my understanding that there are blind spots that can interfere with reception; however I'll leave the downside of hi-tech gizmos to the experts.
As for sharing beautiful spots with rookies, I have spent much of my time in the outdoors leading beginners hither & yon, and not always because I couldn't think of any more glorious ways to spend my time - I did it for exactly the reasons you have stated, AND to ensure that they didn't do anything dumb like walk over the side of a cliff (where one of those things is pretty well useless unless speed dial works a lot better than I suspect). Here's some more: forest fires, unpleasant wildlife encounters, litter, pre-existing medical conditions like diabetes and heart disease, not to mention lost children - it is again my understanding that even yuppie toddlers don't pack cell phones.
Also, I had to get myself up to those magical places and seem to have managed pretty well without a goddamn gondola to get me there. Last, but not least and, again with respect, are people so pathetically lacking in imagination that they can't locate suitable recreational objectives without building a gondola to approach them?
One of the reasons I maintain my membership in MEC, for all of its warts, is because of the mission statement(edited for brevity and no other purpose) that goes thusly: to encourage self-propelled wilderness activities. I see nothing in there about an exemption for the construction of gondolas in Class "A" provincial parks, and many of us are shareholders in that outfit. This implies that us types agree with that philosophy. I sure do.
P.S. for Anders: I didn't think for a second that you were asking for sympathy, but if it makes you feel a bit better, the thanks I got for two years of effort trying to save the boundaries of Strathcona Park and all my other volunteer activities has been precisely zero.
There was a novel that I read about a society where the punishment for ingratitude was death. The method of execution involved being tossed off a high building, and the only way to escape this fate was to express thanks to one's benefactor. Everyone convicted chose death, including the guy whose last words on the way down were, "thanks a loooooot." There's a moral in there somewhere, but I'm not sure what it is.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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If decisions about national and state parks in the US were left to the locals there would be none...
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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The "middle territory" is where a sufficient process works. The question in this case appears to be the amount of discretion wielded by the Minister of Parks and whether that trumps what process exists.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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i don't think the developers are really in any sort of position to donate someone elses land to anyone.
Yes, that was my point. It may have been a casual remark, but was rather ironic.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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But Bruce, you're only at the stovelegs. Can't quit now.
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