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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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In 1942, Michael Dusiak, section foreman for the Canadian Pacific Railway,
was attacked by a wolf while patrolling a section of track on a speeder
(small 4-wheeled open railroad car).
Dusiak relates, "It happened so fast and as it was still very dark, I
thought an engine had hit me first. After getting up from out of the snow
very quickly, I saw the wolf which was about fifty feet away from me and
it was coming towards me, I grabbed the two axes (tools on the speeder),
one in each hand and hit the wolf as he jumped at me right in the belly
and in doing so lost one axe.
Then the wolf started to circle me and got so close to me at times that I
hit him with the head of the axe and it was only the wielding of the axe
that kept him from me. All this time he was growling and gnashing his
teeth. Then he would stop circling me and jump at me and I would hit him
with the head of the axe.
This happened five times and he kept edging me closer to the woods which
was about 70 feet away. We fought this way for about fifteen minutes and
I fought to stay out in the open close to the track. I hit him quite often
as he came at me very fast and quick and I was trying to hit him a solid
blow in the head for I knew if once he got me down it would be my finish.
Then in the course of the fight he got me over onto the north side of the
track and we fought there for about another ten minutes. Then a west
bound train came along travelling about thirty miles an hour and stopped
about half a train length west of us and backed up to where we were
fighting. The engineer, fireman and brakeman came off the engine armed
with picks and other tools, and killed the wolf."
It should be noted that this wolf was skinned and inspected by an
Investigator Crichton, a Conservation Officer. His assessment was that
the animal was a young healthy wolf in good condition although it appeared
lean. ("A Record of Timber Wolf Attacking a Man," JOURNAL OF MAMMOLOGY
Vol. 28, No. 3, August 1947
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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CC, RJ: You've referred to the website of something calling itself the Abundant Wildlife Society of North America (http://www.aws.vcn.com/default.html); A short look at the website, and googling the name of it and its "research director" (T.R. Mader) quickly shows that it is essentially a one-man operation. Essentially, he is a single-note singer, zealously propagandizing his cause in whatever way he can. Anti-wolf, pro "wise use", pro "states' rights", and on and on. The whole libertarian fantasy, dressed up in supposedly objective information. Naturally he's cited by numerous supporters.
When you look at his references, it quickly becomes clear that most of them are 19th century hearsay: (http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_myth_legend_misconception.html);. They don't prove anything. I've always agreed that there probably have been a very isolated attacks by wolves on humans in North America. A trivial number, even allowing for rabies - although wolves and other animals feeding off dead humans on a battlefield would be another matter.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You haven't provided any real proof - even though I concede that there's a tiny bit of truth in buried in your claims.
It's no joke to me. Two people I know were killed by grizzlies, one in 1976 and another in 1998. I once had a close call with a grizzly and cubs, and spent a long day in a tree. You fantasize and rant about killer wildlife - it's no fantasy for me.
Bear and cougar attacks in Canada and the US are not uncommon, and it would be a simple matter to compile a list - names, dates, locations. They're always reported in the news media. Genuine wolf attacks, given the lurid way in which wolves are portrayed by some, would surely be reported, perhaps with increasing reliability as journalism standards have improved - discounting yellow, tabloid sources, of course. So, give us a list, with reliable sources, of all wolf attacks on humans in Canada and the US, since say 1950. Name, location, dates, reference. I'd be surprised if you can come up with ten different reports from credible sources, at least some of which are disputed or unclear.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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RJ, there were and are lots of wolves in Canada, notwithstanding our vicious attempts to eliminate them. Particularly in rural and remote areas. Don't you think it's odd that the Canadian news media don't report wolf attacks, and with rare exceptions haven't for decades - but do (often luridly) report bear and cougar attacks? The reason being that they would be laughed out of the country, unless they could provide proof. Which isn't there.
Canada had and has lots of wolves, and although the denseness of our population is lower than that of the US, there are still lots of people that could be eaten by wolves, if they so wished.
(Note that our wolves undoubtedly include the so-called Mackenzie sub-species, not to mention Arctic wolves. If any sub-group of wolves is truly fiercer and nastier, we'd have them.)
No doubt there are anti-wolf websites in Canada that would have us believe that there are wolf packs in every park, and luridly exaggerate whatever they can. No credibility.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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I can't be bothered to read all this dreck, but the upcoming stupid hollywood flick "Gray" starring Liam Neeson and a group of disposable humans beset by a hideous pack of killer wolves seems like a wolf opponent funded propaganda film. Talk about a war on wolves...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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^^^^
So you provide evidence - the CBC is quite reliable - of one likely but not certain attack, by human-acculturated wolves. Not very convincing.
RJ, I agreed that there were very isolated incidents. They don't prove anything. Certainly not the lurid claims you make.
You referred to other claimed incidents of wolf attacks. Sources, please. And, all things considered, evidence that any attacks that you do cite weren't by semi-feral starved dogs, which are common in smaller and isolated communities, and do attack people.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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RJ, that's a very strange piece of evidence for you to use to support a claim that wolf attacks on humans are common.
The wolf expert called in to look at the scene concluded that the man was killed by a bear and that the wolves were just scavenging his body (the coroner's jury overruled the expert). And the report also concludes that if in fact the wolves did kill the man, it would be significant, "because there are no documented cases in North America of a healthy wolf killing a human in the wild."
I actually lived and worked in remote areas of northern Saskatchewan. Spent months at a time outdoors, generally unarmed and often alone, in places where there were plenty of wolves. All we ever saw were tracks -- the wolves never once bothered us. Bears, on the other hand, were a constant bother.
None of which is to say that wolves don't kill domestic animals. Or ungulates. They do. And I sympathize with Rodger.
But you're going to have to be more rigorous in your evidence presentation if you want anyone to believe that wolves attacking humans is a common occurrence.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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I really have tried to stay off this thread, but
MH: Re your assertion:
Bear and cougar attacks in Canada and the US are not uncommon, and it would be a simple matter to compile a list - names, dates, locations. They're always reported in the news media.
I must disagree based on experience.
When we launched rafts on Idaho's Main Salmon River in summer 2002, the Ranger giving us our pre-launch "pep-talk" mentioned there had been three recent black bear attacks on humans on the adjacent Middle Fork Salmon River. After the trip, I did a internet search for reports and with some difficulty found newspaper articles on two minor attacks, where only slight injuries resulted. I finally found the story of the 3rd attack written up as a "human-interest" story in the victims home-town newspaper.
It is a great story!
Middle Fork Salmon Bear Attack. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=20020725&id=D4kNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RnADAAAAIBAJ&pg=5001,3730836
Idaho fishing, rafting trip leads to chase, attack by 300-pound bear
Friday, July 26, 2002
By Lillian Thomas, Post-Gazette Staff Writer
The above incident, which was witnessed by at least 20 people, never ended up being reported in any Idaho media.
It is not good for Idaho's tourist business, for the media to report wild animal attacks on humans here. I later heard about another black bear human attack in an area of Idaho's Frank Church Wilderness, that I sometimes visit. I could not find details of the incident online, and finally contacted the regional Idaho Fish & Game office. All they would tell me was: "there was an incident, and the offending animal had been dealt with."
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Interesting - encounters here with cougars and bears aren't unusual, even on Vancouver's north shore. (Ghost's old backyard.) Where there's an attack, or perceived threat, it's usually well-reported, especially in local media. Every spring some juvenile cougars get shot because they're hanging around too close to humanity, and every autumn some bears (mostly black, some grizzly) are shot for the garbage sins of humans. And two or three people in B.C. each year actually are attacked by a cougar or bear, and injured or killed. It's always reported.
Public land managers probably have a duty to (responsibly) report such hazards when they're identified, at least to visitors.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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So the farmers and ranchers come in and irradicate the wolves (and grizzly,cougars etc.) so it would be easier to ranch. That was acceptable in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Through science we figured out that it isn't a good idea to eliminate species; it just doesn't work out in the long run. So the feds protect the wolf and re-introduce the wolf to try to correct a mistake of the past. The Ranchers, like almost all people, don't like to adjust to change; to allow wolves to eat some of their livestock requires them to change, and they are going to complain.
To kill the wolves ,the cougars, the grizzlys, the buffalo etc. was ignorance at work in order to make money easier. If we are going to ranch in such a place now we need to do it the smart way which doesn't include wiping out the inconvient species that make it more difficult to make money.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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A list of reliably documented fatal wolf attacks on humans, in reverse chronological order:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans
You may wish to believe that there have been more - please yourself. You're free to correct the wikipedia article, if you can back it up.
The fatality in Saskatchewan may have been the first recorded fatality in North America - although it's not certain.
http://www.wolf.org/wolves/news/2005releases/123005_wolfattack.asp
On a side note, it's clear that the anti-wolf zealots have a lot of time on their hands, to judge by the number of websites in which they quote each other to "prove" their claims - another big echo chamber, apparently. And the site names are hilarious.
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WBraun
climber
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By the way all Canadian cities have wolves that attack people
Rojox is getting attacked by the wolf named Anders .....
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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We will now be told that scientists working for the US Fish & Wildlife Service aren't credible or competent, and that they want to impose their nefarious agenda on RJ, including quartering not troops but wolves at his house.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Ontario. Fisher river on Lake Winnipeg.
Lake Winnipeg isn't in Ontario.
ps And if it's incorrectly reported in wikipedia, you're free to correct it. Not my problem.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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On Mighty Hiker's suggestion, I actually read the Wiki article on wolf attacks and it was far from reassuring. Here are some quotes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans
In France alone, historical records indicate that between the years 1580-1830, 3,069 people were killed by wolves, 1,857 of which were non-rabid.
The Wolves of Paris were a man-eating wolf pack that entered Paris during the winter of 1450 through breaches in the city walls, killing forty people.
In Imperial Russia 1890, a document was produced stating that 161 people had been killed by wolves in 1871.
A hypothesis as to why wolves in Eurasia historically acted more aggressively toward humans than those in North America is that in the past, Old World wolf hunting was mostly an activity for the nobility, whereas American wolf hunts were partaken by ordinary citizens, nearly all of them possessing firearms. This difference could have caused American wolves to be more fearful of humans, making them less willing to venture into settled areas.
Though most Native American tribes revered wolves, their oral history confirms they were attacked by wolves on occasion, long before the arrival of European settlers. An old Nunamiut hunter, in an interview with author Barry Lopez, said that wolves used to attack his people, until the introduction of firearms, at which point the attacks ceased.
The majority of victims of unprovoked healthy wolves tend to be women and children. A recent Fennoscandian study on historical wolf attacks occurring in the 18th–19th centuries indicated that victims were almost entirely children under the age of 12, with 85% of the attacks occurring when no adults were present.
The list of people known to be killed by wolves begins with the school teacher in Alaska in 2010.
This article confirmed then the hypothesis I was developing as to why people like ghost could wander alone in the Arctic and not be bothered, but the recently introduced wolves of of the mountain states have been so predatory near human habitation. Because the mountain states wolves were on the endangered list, people couldn't kill them so they grew bolder than had been predicted. I would guess after a couple more hunting seasons, all one will have to do is lift a long stick and hold it like a gun and they will run. Of course that won't save the ungulates.
Again I ask, didn't America have better ways of spending several million dollars than to reintroduce wolves, compensate ranchers for the losses, and then get the wolves under some kind of control again by killing large numbers of them?
And speaking of ironies, how about the irony of California environmentalists causing mountain state people to have even more reason to own more guns?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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I reckon more people are killed in California by sharks and mountain lions than in any other place in which people are killed by wolves, even after adjustment for population. This thread has reenforced my opinion that many in the "mountain states" are shrill paranoid whiners.
People all over this planet tended livestock for century after century amongst predators without relying on a government to remove them (which is how wolves were "eradicated" in the first place in the U.S.) It should be so here. I've got no problem with cows or their owners shooting wolves where necessary. Own cows or sheep? Take care of them yourself.
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dirtbag
climber
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This thread has reenforced my opinion that many in the "mountain states" are shrill paranoid whiners.
Indeed.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Again I ask, didn't America have better ways of spending several million dollars than to reintroduce wolves, compensate ranchers for the losses, and then get the wolves under some kind of control again by killing large numbers of them?
As big as big government is, ranchers are not compensated by big gov't. Some states are just starting to form compensation programs, but mostly ranchers get nothing but a hard, dry, shaft. I suspect that if city people just had someone walk up, grab a bunch of their sh#t, slap them in the face and walk away -like ranchers are currently - they'd feel differently.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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It would sure be nice if the guv compensated me when a competitor took something.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Are we looking at the same article?
In the 20th century I found 5 people killed in North America by wild wolves and 3 killed by pet wolves.
In the world at large, 60 children were killed in Uttar Pradesh, India in 1966 and 1967 alone.
Plenty more in Russia and other places. I was surprised also to learn that they even
had wolves in Japan 150 years ago and a Shinto priest was killed right in his own home?!
In general of course, the number of wolf attacks is going down because wolves are slowly being
eliminated from most places and because the citizenry is armed. The reason for the high
number of fatalities in India, is that being good Hindus, they refuse to take life.
edit: I see the comment I was replying to has been taken down.
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