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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 21, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
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Shortly after the pepper was deployed, the group peacefully broke up. Police ushered them over to an area they had set up where they had wash stations with running water, towels and medical personnel on hand.
except in the video, shortly after the pepper spray is deployed, the cops are surrounded and are 'ushered' away...perhaps the above quoted didn't have a clear view through the face shield of his riot gear.
Chaz, I respect your right to an opinion...
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 21, 2011 - 12:35pm PT
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Skipt I respect your right to say any assinine thing you want. You're good at it and have made it your trademark. (edited)
Who I voted for is irrelevant to a discussion about police brutality as well as none of your f*#king business...though I will say that every politician is bought and paid for...
Partisan Politics is singing it's death song. Pepper spray is a vegetable and corporations are people too.
Piss off Skippy, If you have a personal problem. you can PM me anytime.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 21, 2011 - 01:11pm PT
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After seeing skips post of some of those OWS actions in all those cities looks like both sides are full of brutalities.
From the cops it's to expected as they are the "Arm" of society and are controlled by the "head".
If your heads not screwed on right then you'll beaten by your arms.
I watched the video of the idiot OWS protesters knocking down the 78 year old lady, giving here a bloody nose and injuries, who rode the bus for 11 hours to get to the AP event.
The OWS people better get sh'it together because they seem totally fragmented by many different ideologies.
A lot of idiots in the OWS are making it hard for the more intelligent protesters to get their point across.
They need a national unifying leader with some good brain in his/her head .....
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 21, 2011 - 01:16pm PT
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okay skippy I'll play
NY: 10/9/2011 — Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters Accused of Living in Filth as Shocking Pictures Show One Demonstrator Defecating on a POLICE CAR- debunked
Chicago: 10/17/2011 — COMMUNIST LEADER Cheered at Occupy Chicago-Commies!!!..really?
New York: 10/11/2011 — “You Can Have Sex with Animals.” well...in that case
Los Angeles: 10/14/2011 – Anti-Semitic Protester at Occupy Wall Street...was the Dept of Homeland security notified?
10/27/2011 – Anti-Semitic Tweet From Occupier or Sympathizer...Israel deeply concerned
Boston: 10/20/2011 — Occupy Boston Doesn’t Want Police Involved in Rape...that would be assault and battery .
Portland, OR: 10/18/2011 — Capitalist Offering Jobs at Occupy Portland Finds Few Takers....Recruiter for B Of A?
Dayton, OH: 10/22/2011 — Protester: ‘F*ck The Military, F*ck Your Flag, And F*ck The Police’- free speech
Chicago: 10/14/2011 — Protesters’ Message At #OccupyChicago Rally: ‘Destroy Israel’...free speech
NY: 10/21/2011 — New Yorkers Fed Up With Noisy, Defecating Protesters...New Yorkers don't defecate?
Chicago: 10/26/2011 — Occupiers Under Investigation by FBI for Links to Terrorism- once occupiers are 'terrorists' we can justify a military response
Glasgow: 10/26/2011 — Woman Gang-Raped...sure it wasn't a soccer match
Denver: 10/15/2011 — Occupy Denver Demonstrator Accused of Groping TV Photographer,,,Faux news "he asked for it."
Minneapolis, MN: Bricks, Rocks, ‘Riot Supplies’ Discovered by Police...at local landscaping supplier
Chicago: 10/26/2011 — Unrepentant Domestic Terrorist Bill Ayers Wows Occupiers. Is 'wowing' illegal?
10/26/2011/ — Occupy Protests Have Jewish Leaders Concerned...Alert the media.
San Diego: 10/25/2011 — Flag Used as Chew Toy by Occupier’s Dog...left his other flag in San Francisco
Charlottesville, VA: 11/1/2011 — Underage Drinking at Occupy Charlottesville Site...probably imported beer
Los Angeles: 11/7/2011 — Occupiers Shut Down Burger King — Video...?
Ottawa, CN: 10/29/2011 — Feces, Urine, and Blood Covered Blanket Hung Over Tent...riveting
NYC: 11/17/2011 – Mob of Occupiers Taunt, Bully Small School Children...were they anti semitic, communist. homeless schoolchildren?
San Francisco, CA: 11/15/2011 — Deadly Dog Disease Spreads at Occupy Camp..chew toy flag sharing..
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 21, 2011 - 01:42pm PT
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if Locker says you're an okay guy who is just misunderstood I'm willing to consider the possibility.
You all (You are a fake libertarian so it is easy to lump you in with the
rest of the crowd) need to come to grips with the real world.
You don't get to go around and say "assnine" things, call people all kinds of
names, gang up together, and then pretend you are above it all.
If you have a personal problem feel free to PM me.
Like I said, you are far from any type of "liberal/libertarian" that you pretend.
Real Libertarians understand the basic concepts of "property."
I do not pretend to be anything other than a concerned citizen of this country.
It is my right, as it is yours, to go around saying any assinine thing I want to, short of slander or libel.
I called you a dick- I apologize and will edit. Who have I ganged up upon? What have I pretended to be above?
I've been to three OWS actions. How much firsthand knowledge of OWS do you have? And before you label me anti-semitic, commie, liberal, flag chewing hippie- I went to see for myself, to decide for myself and form an opinion, which as you know, is my right.
re: concepts of property= you do understand who owns the University of California?
since you're so readily labeling - care to label yourself? What flag are you chewing on?
A lot of idiots in the OWS are making it hard for the more intelligent protesters to get their point across.
They need a national unifying leader with some good brain in his/her head ..... agreed
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nov 21, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
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When I first saw the video, I didn’t think it was a big deal, they pepper sprayed some people who wouldn’t move. I wondered if they could have moved them without the pepper spray. I wondered what’s the policy. If pepper spray has been proven a less damaging/violent way to remove people than force it may be the best thing. If they crossed their ts and dotter their is and informed people of what would happen maybe it had to happen.
But then I read the response of the head of the police. She said the officers were surrounded and had to use pepper spray to clear an opening to leave. Total B.S. The video clearly shows one cop spraying the people who were peacefully blocking the sidewalk. If the head of the police had to lie, then obviously the way the spraying went down was wrong and against policy. This lie is way more damaging than the spraying in the first place. Her lie makes it so; people can’t trust the police, obvious that they care more about protecting their own who did wrong rather than following the law and protecting the public, and because she has introduced this distrust of the police she put their officers more at risk in the future because people can’t trust them. Great job a-hole!
Look at that photo of the loser, pear shaped, fat pig who sprayed them. I think a lot of cops are great and in it for the right reasons. But there are also many people who want to be cops to control people and enjoy their little power trip. The fat pig who sprayed them looks like the latter. Just the way he showed off the can of spray then made TWO passes spraying them until the can was empty shows what type of cop he is, the pig kind.
Edit to add:
UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza told reporters Saturday that the decision to use the pepper spray was made at the scene. "The students had encircled the officers," she said. "They needed to exit. They were looking to leave but were unable to get out."
She has now been placed on leave as well. What a dumb fool. How do you lie about something that is so clearly seen to be a lie on dozens of videos.
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Degaine
climber
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Nov 21, 2011 - 01:49pm PT
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fattrad wrote:
By refusing to move or "peacefully" resisting arrest, their actions become non-peaceful and appropriate levels of force should be used.
So you consider Rosa Parks actions to be non-peaceful (in other words violent)?
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Nov 21, 2011 - 01:56pm PT
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nov 21, 2011 - 02:00pm PT
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LOL!!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nov 21, 2011 - 02:08pm PT
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It's so funny to hear the righties who supposedly love freedom justify fascist actions by the police against people who peaceably are demonstrating their right to free speech. Even funnier that they see no hypocrisy in their position. Freedom to them means freedom to do what THEY think is ok, totally not getting the point.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nov 21, 2011 - 02:30pm PT
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I don't think they should block the walkway either, but that is not justification to pepper spray them.
What's telling is the people who try to justify the pepper spraying. So many people are clearly outraged by what they saw, but it's totally ok with those who are anti OWS. If it was Tea Party people who got sprayed for the exact same thing they would rail about government overreach.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Nov 21, 2011 - 03:00pm PT
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If you compare what happened at U.C. Davis with the hundreds, perhaps thousands killed in the Middle East for protesting, it's pretty mild, a little pepper spray.
It is somewhat of a testimony to the relative peace and freedom we enjoy here, compared to many places in the world. Possibly a more intelligent response by the police would have been to wait until sun down, then spray with lots of cold water. Better still, bring in a snow making machine.
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Degaine
climber
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Nov 21, 2011 - 03:16pm PT
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skipt wrote:
Last I checked Rosa Parks didn't sit in a bus for days on end.
Your analogy is bogus.
I don't see how with regard to fattrad's statement.
Here it is again
fattrad wrote:
By refusing to move or "peacefully" resisting arrest, their actions become non-peaceful and appropriate levels of force should be used.
Rosa Parks refused to move. Given fattrad's statement above I asked if he would have considered her resistance to no longer be peaceful.
skipt wrote:
There were other people at Davis and last time I checked they were not
allowed to use the space because it was taken over by people who thought
they had more right to use it than anyone else.
Honest question, have you ever been to UCD? Ever been to the quad? Seen the campus?
I did my undergraduate studies at UCD and during that time there were many protests, events, gatherings, etc., on that very quad and elsewhere. I guarantee you that people occupying the quad, even in the spot where they were, does not inconvenience anyone, at least not relative to the usual goings-on at the campus.
And I guarantee you that no one sitting on the concrete in that video deserved to be pepper sprayed and brutalized by the police in that manner. Why do you feel that they deserved it?
skipt wrote:
You have completely put Rosa Parks on her head.
What would you have done if Rosa Parks wanted to use that space to tell
people of her opinion?
fattrad stated that “by refusing to move …” the students had in effect stopped being peaceful and had turned to violence. So I asked if he considered Rosa Parks refusal to move to be an act of violence.
What about that don’t you understand?
skipt wrote:
Would you have told her that using police to clear it first is wrong?
Would you have told her that she either join the protest first or not be
able to use it to tell her story?
What are you talking about (especially with regard to my post)?
skipt wrote:
Did the thought ever occur to you that you are closer to being fascist
than anyone else?
Skip
How, in my question to fattrad, am I being fascist? In what way are OWS protestors being fascist?
Actually, how about demonstrating first that you actually understand what fascism means.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 21, 2011 - 03:18pm PT
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Skipt as long as you keep pooping out unsubstantiated nonsense your opinions will keep smelling like a litter box. Like a typical Republicant you seem to believe a lie is only a lie if you don't tell it enough.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 21, 2011 - 03:43pm PT
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I would be a good mental exercise for those critical of this moment to state what it would take to bring them to the streets in protest and what would be justifiable tactics.
Would the banning of handguns do it? What is unacceptable enough for you to take action?
Just asking.
Karl
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 21, 2011 - 04:07pm PT
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The real problem with this incident is that it does nothing to help the University, or the UC system, which is sorely in need of public support. I know that the euphemism for pork barrel spending has long since become "investment," but I think our expenditures on the UC, CSU and community college system have been a good investment in every sense, and have a much higher rate of public return than, say, our heavy incarceration rate for drug offenses.
One thing I learned from my tear-gas-filled years as a Berkeley undergrad, however, is that campus protests produce no positive reaction from those who do not already support both the university and the cause of the protesters. They simply lead those outside the university community to view the students -- and the supporting faculty (and particularly the liberal arts and humanities faculty) -- as spoiled, out of touch children who don't deserve or need any more public dollars.
If for no other reason than that, pepper spraying the students, rather than physically removing them, was a mistake. Yes, I know many law enforcement experts say pepper spray is appropriate, and safer, in that situation, but they don't consider the PR consequences for the University in reaching that conclusion.
That said, the idea that this is a failure of leadership by the chancellor is absurd. If the chancellor is micro managing the method by which illegal obsturctionists get moved, that chancellor doesn't know how to allocate her time. Some pro-union types reflexively think that battling and belittling management helps workers. Baloney, as the University will see when it comes time to seek funds from the legislature.
John
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Degaine
climber
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Nov 21, 2011 - 04:21pm PT
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Skipt wrote:
Outside of protestors burning buildings. Partnering with terrorists and Nazi's. Shutting down work sites of people who have nothing to do with the protestors demands. And most importantly - splitting people into two groups: 1% against 99% without due process of law (the most despicable thing they have done IMHO)... I can't think of a thing.
Sorry, skipt, but that is not the definition of Facism.
The OWS have not partnered with terrorists or Nazis. As a matter of fact, the OWS protesters do not have any sort of leadership at all. The only thing that links the protest in each city appears to be a name and similar complaints, but the protests are not coordinated by an entity.
Seems you continue to use the "must be part of a team" paradigm.
Skipt wrote:
Answer this:
How do a bunch of cops that over react define "fascism?"
I won't since I never wrote that the cops were fascist. You have a bad habit of erroneously attributing opinions and statements to posters that they did not make.
However, I'm glad that we agree that the cops over reacted.
Skipt wrote:
It doesn't. Fascism is a "Political Ideology." The same type that you find with people who align themselves with Nazi's and don't give a sh#t.
Skip
For someone who has clearly supported the US invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq under the guise that we're bringing democracy and freedom to these countries - in addition to the fact that you've argued that the US is the greatest democracy on the planet - it's disheartening to see you use the term Nazi.
First, OWS protestors have not aligned themselves with Nazis.
Two, I am not one to use the term lightly ("Godwin's rule") so I'm not sure why you're using it with me.
Three, I have family who was slaughtered in Eastern Europe by the actual Nazis in actual concentration and death camps. I also have family who was slaughtered during the pogroms of Stalin's USSR.
When you write what you do you both cheapen their tragedy and fail to demonstrate what the OWS protestors actually have to do with Nazis or Fascism.
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Degaine
climber
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Nov 21, 2011 - 04:35pm PT
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My apologies, Skipt.
Tone doesn't translate well and I did not realize until your last post that you were being facetious and joking around just to see everyone get their panties in a knot.
Well done.
Cheers.
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