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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 21, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
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Marriage means making some compromises and not everything one wants to do can be easily accommodated in that setting.
Tell that to your husband!
Peace
Karl
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monolith
climber
berzerkly
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Sep 21, 2011 - 02:03pm PT
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LEB, 39 percent of American are low or deficient in B12 (see the Framingham study). That of course includes a hell of a lot of people who eat meat.
Meat is not the answer to B12. Getting your produce directly from your own healthy soil is the answer, just like the way animals get it. Since few of us can, we all should get B12 tested and take supplements if needed.
Is it really too much to put a few drops of B12 under your tongue once a week? My B12 level is much higher than the average meat eating American.
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monolith
climber
berzerkly
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Sep 21, 2011 - 02:20pm PT
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B12 is hardly complicated if you know the facts.
And I did say that few of us can get our produce directly from our own healthy soil.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 21, 2011 - 03:16pm PT
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dirtbag, it is also complicated by the fact that vegans - persons who eat no animal products at all - must take precautions to supplement their diet with B12 tabs.
All diets have their complications, cholesterol, Sugar, fat problems and issues.
I'm not a Vegan but have a lot of friends who are and those folks seem to glow and bristle with energy. I'd hate to be one of those raw food people cause I don't much like the discipline or the food but those folks seem to have great vitality too.
Then I look at the average American fast-foodist waddling around in their stretch pants and suddenly concern for B12 looks more like a talking point than a real obstacle
Peace
karl
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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Sep 21, 2011 - 03:48pm PT
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From Vick to B12. Amazing.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Sep 21, 2011 - 03:48pm PT
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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Sep 21, 2011 - 03:57pm PT
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Yummy. I love blinkers.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Sep 21, 2011 - 04:17pm PT
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Pflugerville, Texas
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Sep 21, 2011 - 05:09pm PT
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Animals are slaughtered for ALL of our food, INCLUDING YOURS.
You don't think the plowing and harvesting off that nice little wheat field is a benign process, do you? That those blades chopping up the ground slice only the dirt?
Or the water diverted from the river to grow that delicious bell pepper you had last night has no ill effect on the critters formerly dependent on that water?
Or the initial clearing of the field several decades ago didn't brutally mutilate thousands of critters, and that the subsequent loss of habitat led to starvation of countless others?
C'mon.
All very good points, but everything is by degrees, right?
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Sep 21, 2011 - 05:22pm PT
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DMT - thanks for your posts.
The history of racism in the US is that it changes over time - that it becomes less and less overt. We've gotten to the point where we honestly believe we're colorblind - we're not even aware of it on a conscious level. And yet the racial inequities remain - our assumption of white privilege - the institutionalized racism of the war on drugs - the absurdly different outcomes for white versus black families.
In a group of white people, the Vick issue is a question of animal rights. It gets very comfy for us when there are no black voices questioning our well-informed insights.
I'm curious from your side - did you grow up as a white person in Tennessee or as a black person in Tennessee? Was the damage from the racial tensions inflicted equally on both sides, or does there remain some inequity in that score?
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Sep 21, 2011 - 05:28pm PT
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Hey, I'm inbred, centuries of Jews breeding.
Hey fattrad - me too. I can't imagine what my life would be like if my grandfather-in-law hadn't been rescued from a concentration camp. Maybe our shared cultural heritage can help us empathize with the condition of blacks in the US today.
But it seems like instead we often want to impose our own values on others, rather than try to understand the racial / ethnic / cultural heritage associated with their genetic identity. I know I'm guilty of that.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 21, 2011 - 05:46pm PT
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So I'm guessing that the people on this site that are most upset about Micheal Vick, probably aren't big time NFL watchers anyway.
Did any of you all avoid watching the Monday night game, but would have watched it, but for Vick?
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Sep 21, 2011 - 05:50pm PT
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Yes DMT - I'm sure that's true.
The thread immediately became that Michael Vick (and Tiger Woods) shouldn't be allowed to make their money he does because of what he did. You can choose to frame that as a question of animal rights, or a question of race. Which way do we choose? Which way do blacks choose?
Once you choose to frame the issue as a question of animal rights, sure, it's not about race. But making the choice about how to frame the discussion is about race.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Sep 21, 2011 - 05:53pm PT
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living vicariously through overpaid "pro" athletes running an animal skin up and down astroturf = ghey.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 21, 2011 - 05:56pm PT
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Yer all jealous M'fukers.
So he gets paid big ass bucks it ain't his fault they pay him that.
He made his mistakes, paid for them and moved on.
You dumb fuks never moved on and are stuck in yer own ghetto holes ......
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Sep 22, 2011 - 01:16am PT
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DMT - I'm not sure that I understand what your saying. I thought I already answered your question. Are you saying that black's reaction is to give Vick a pass because of his race, while our white reaction is to condemn him while hiding from the real reason?
Here’s the problem with not discussing race in this context - not discussing race allows us to maintain our claim to innocence in the face of the pervasive racism in which we are complicit through our unexamined white privilege. We don’t have to act in order to continue racism in the US – we just have to not act.
So sure, we can talk about these issues without any reference to race. We can say that we shouldn’t allow Michael Vick or Tiger Woods to make the money that they make. We have good reasons - it’s because we love dogs, or we don’t enjoy athletics. We can maintain our claim to innocence – we don’t need to take an active racist step in order to maintain the racist status quo.
But when we step back and look at it, what we’re talking about is a group of white people wanting to deny two black men the right to earn a living, in a society where black families earn half the annual income that white families earn, and then saying that it’s just a coincidence that the person happens to be black and we happen to be white.
Or we can say that we oppose crime, and we can start a thread about a pernicious hate crime against some random individuals. We all hate crime – nothing to disturb our claim to innocence there.
But when we step back and look at it, what we’re talking about is a group of white people talking about a hate crime against a white person by a person of color, where the perpetrator is insulted on the basis of breeding, in a society where a black person is 220 times more likely to be the victim of a hate crime than a white person.
What are we left with from these threads – whose perspective are we validating, and whose are we invalidating? Where are all the other threads advocating that we deny white people the right to earn a living, and condemning the 220 attacks by inbred whites on black people? I can't find them.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 22, 2011 - 06:59am PT
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The real problem in this country is that people care more for their dogs than they do for their people. People care more in general for dogs than people. I want to make a bumper sticker that says be as nice to stray people as you would to a stray dog but someone would most likly slash my tires....
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 22, 2011 - 09:34am PT
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Vick's actions were appalling.
Now excuse me while I go burn a cross.
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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Sep 22, 2011 - 10:25am PT
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DMT,
What about Dean's story makes you worry?
The story makes total sense to me and relates to the post.
Reread it again as if it was written by someone else, lets say your father or mother for instance, and tell me if it makes sense or not.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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Sep 22, 2011 - 10:35am PT
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One guy is a drunk the other commited the acts of a fledgling serial killer. I see a difference there.
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