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Btown
Mountain climber
Grand Junction, CO
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May 19, 2011 - 12:41pm PT
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Here is my heaven:
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monolith
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 01:11pm PT
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It's pretty clear Hawking is expressing his opinion, not undeniable fact. If you want to think he's being some authoritarian figure, fine, that's your problem.
Do you want him to constantly say IMHO so you won't be offended?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 19, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
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it is absolutely fuking impossible for a woman to give birth without the introduction of seamen
Weschrist,
That is exactly why I joined the Navy! Them ground pounders don't get diddly!
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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May 19, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
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Is it possible that the human soul has mass? Perhaps approximately 21.0g of mass? Is it possible that at the very moment when a human dies this amount of mass leaves the body?
When did it get there? At conception, sometime in utero, at birth? Do souls get recycled? If a soul leaves does it go, like, to Goodwill heaven, get spiffed up and regifted to someone else?
Clint Eastwood (yummy) did the flick, Hereafter starring Matt Damon (double yummy). I'm a true believer. Susan
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 19, 2011 - 02:20pm PT
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The Spiritual realm is just more subtle than scientific instruments and our senses, which are calibrated to the density of this world.
Your Soul and Spirit is consciousness and Love itself, which can't be measured yet.
It matters not what you believe in some ways. Believe is a content of the mind which is just a tool for navigating this planet.
If you love people, you are spiritual whether you hate that idea or not.
It is possible and common for people to have experiences of higher realms and divine vibes, but then they mix it up with their concepts and ideas and say stupid things about it.
Wishing you all good vibes. It's your state of being that makes you aligned with your true self, whether you believe in anything or not.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 19, 2011 - 03:18pm PT
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Suggesting there is no "heaven" implies the end of curiousity.
That's quite a leaping implication you make here, doubly so given you are talking about one of the most curious minds mankind has ever produced.
His is also a mind that has had little recourse but thinking when it comes to fully experiencing life. He has also faced the continual prospect of an untimely death and if anyone had a reason to desperately clutch at the prospect of his consciousness surviving death intact it would be him.
Yet he doesn't - curious - is it not? Why would a guy so thoroughly exercising and investing in his consciousness be willing to simply depart into the ether? Maybe he's tired of thinking so hard - or maybe it's just that he's thought it through and is at peace with his conclusions.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 19, 2011 - 03:59pm PT
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Despite some of them giving false claims of persecution, religious people are catered to almost all the time, at least in the US. They are like the smokers or meat eater whiners, when they hear people with alternative views they get all offended. Newsflash: other people believe differently - deal with it.
I applaud Stephen Hawking for having the guts to give his views, when the vast majority of talk you hear supports religion. For every one time you hear someone says god/heaven doesn't exist you hear MANY "In God we trusts, God bless yous, etc.) How many times has someone come to your door and said God doesn't exist?
IMO more people questioning blind faith is a good thing. As this situation demonstrates Hawking generated a firestorm with a few simple comments, because people can't handle what is possibly the truth.
I believe we should allow people to believe what they want to believe, but I also think that way too many people believe in forms of religion that are divisive and don't allow respect for other people's different opinions.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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May 19, 2011 - 04:10pm PT
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If Hawking, who holds a similar status amongst scientist/scientific belief, makes the same statement, billions of people worldwide would take him very seriously. He is arguably the highest authority for/in the scientific comunity. And likewise if he stated the oposite(said there is a heaven/God). No, he is not... But to many of the lay not deeply versed in physics, he is, since he is as deep as most people look/hear. This is evidenced by the fact that the vast myriad of people cannot name more than 2 or 3 physicists alive today without having to look up some names, so Hawking gets top billing with most.
re: belief in a flat Earth...
It came from ignorance.
It mainly came from people thinking with their "gut", which many do in their belief of God/Heaven/afterlife.
Ya know... I gotta side with D on all this, as he is pretty much spot on, in that Hawkings oppinion of whether there is a Heaven or not, is just an oppinion like mine or anyone elses.
But, my oppinion is made AFTER I weigh all the evidence, real and spiritual (I have a different definition for this word than most of the faithful)... And in doing so, some of what I do value Harking's oppinion on (cosmology) does get added to the scales, as well as many other physicists who's work I value more, historians, philosophers, spiritualists, theologians, friends, and even people from these sites who make well articulated arguments that make me think, most often from those on the other side of an issue than I am. Thus, there is a constant flow of things beings added to the scales, and some things may even be removed.
Point being... The details of my oppinion change, as I get new stuff to consider. And, since all that's been put in my scales probably does mach what anyone else has weighed, it is therfore my personal oppinion.
I know... Wordy... And I'm not quite as articulate as some, but I hope you get the jist.
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
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May 19, 2011 - 04:48pm PT
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I dislike it when people trod on someone's beliefs, especially when it comforts them and helps them through life. If you don't believe in God, well that's great! You have a strong relationship with your savior, fantastic! But don't you dare step on those that differ from you! It's wrong on so many levels... It's like taking away a child's favorite teddy bear when they are about to have surgery. Yeah, to you it's just a stuff animal, but heck... That is not the same reality for that child. Plus giving that same teddy bear will not provide the same comfort to a grown man... It might really backfire...
We each have our own way, our own path to meet our needs.
As religion goes... I am content in "not knowing." I respect people's view points and... I am really going to enjoy the journey of finding out.
Anastasia Sherman
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dirtbag
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 04:56pm PT
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Except for the fact that people often do funny things to other people in furtherance of their delusions of fairy tales and mythology.
Some people just "can't handle the truth."
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WBraun
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 05:02pm PT
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Man requires oxygen to breath.
There are no other options or opinions .....
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WBraun
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 05:08pm PT
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The earth is flat until you move ......
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dirtbag
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 05:41pm PT
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Bible thumpers get quite riled up when you challenge their delusions.
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WBraun
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 05:45pm PT
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Atheists get all riled up when you tell them God exists and has been proved to exist and that challenges their delusions .....
:-)
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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May 19, 2011 - 06:17pm PT
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Atheists get all riled up when you tell them God exists and has been proved to exist and that challenges their delusions
Atheists get all riled up because you use the typical "because I told you so" arguments about God and religion and then go on with the "I know the truth" crap but never present any meaningful arguments about your point of view.
If you have proof, share it or shut up.
And if it is equal to the proof I have about the existence of Santa Clause then expect it to be questioned. "I believe therefore it is true" is not proof in any way, shape, or form.
Dave
[edit to add smiley]
:-)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 19, 2011 - 06:33pm PT
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everybody gets riled up when their beliefs are questioned because we link our ego to what we think about things. Same principle with Bolting, Hang-dogging or whatever.
If you're comfortable, truly, with your headspace, it shouldn't be a big deal what folks believe.
There's some caveats. I like fatty as a person in person, for instance, but wouldn't want his beliefs in charge of any armies.
peace
Karl
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 19, 2011 - 06:40pm PT
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I want to believe in Heaven/afterlife/reincarnation. I'm content if this life on Earth is all we get, but it we be even better if there was more. I just haven't seen/heard/felt anything that I would consider evidence it exists. Perhaps others have.
But I doubt it's the same for people of faith. They don't WANT to believe there is NO heaven.
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WBraun
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 07:46pm PT
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I'd use the rope to tie up weschrist and since he can't drink beer make him drink religious dogma ....
What store sells the drink called "religious dogma"?
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