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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 29, 2011 - 10:41am PT
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Fatty-
I undertand your personal feelings and leanings, but the time for ANY foreign aid--military or non-military--has now long since passed. I for one, cannot see the USA subsidizing any one else with funds borrowed from China. Time to cut the foreign aid expenses to ZERO per Rand Paul's leadership in the U.S. Senate.
This gets us into security from perceived enemies, but as Pogo said, we have met the enemy and he is US! We're spending recklessly and out of control; the deficeit is our mortal enemy now. National bankruptcy HERE is the potential outcome, and our status as the world's only remaining superpower will become history.
Did you see Rand Paul's plan to cut $500 Billion? I support that completely. Oh yeah, Israel included!!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 29, 2011 - 11:17am PT
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Fatty;
Agreed. We cannot have medical costs continuing to escalate and thus having Medicare eating our lunch. We need to address this through some type of malpractice reform in addition to getting the FDA under control.
As a retired professional who worked in the biotech/ pharma arena for 45 years, I know what the costs of new drug development are, and the primary cost is regulatory compliance. In 2001, the cost of developing a new drug and the regulatory compliance was $100 million; since that time costs have more than doubled.
We need to address the coverage of "recent immigrants" as well; the hospitals are jacking up prices to the general public to cover the expenses of treating the indigent. I'm not asking for regulation, but some means of getting the leeches out of the system.
As for Socialist Security, yes, I "paid in to the system," and it wasn't voluntary either. It was essentially armed robbery by the government. I used every accounting trick in the book to keep the "hit" minimal so I could do something else with my money. But it sure as Hell wasn't "voluntary."
My plan would be to get the deficeit under control and then begin an eleigibility check for qualifications for receiving these funds. There are people receiving benefits who have paid little or NOTHING into the "trust fund" (what a JOKE!). On the other hand my wife is totally disabled, but can't qualify for ANY assistance even though she paid in substantial amounts of $$$. Cutting to the chase, we begin a plan of reducing benefits received by 2% a year initially, and 3% the second year, and 5% subsequently, bringing down the benefits received gradually and taking additional measures to reduce "inflation" to less than zero.
But...we've digressed from the OP thread, and have now conducted a great Hijacking!
Cheers.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jan 29, 2011 - 02:00pm PT
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The New York Times has some interesting video footage showing three Egyptian armored personnel carriers blocking a narrow street after the police start firing on protestors, thus giving cover to the protestors. A bit later, Army personnel get out of the carriers and plead with the crowd to stay out of the line of fire.
Normally when the military begins to take the side of the people, the government has lost. The fact that the police have withdrawn from central Cairo and the military are friendly with the protestors looks like further evidence.
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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Jan 29, 2011 - 03:01pm PT
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The majority of middle eastern peoples are a sensible bunch antagonized far too long by extremists, the elite, and dictators
Egypt protesters and soldiers: The army and the people are one
Military men, hoisted up by the crowd, remove their helmets; demonstrators chant they they will not cease their protest until Mubarak resigns.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/egypt-protesters-and-soldiers-the-army-and-the-people-are-one-1.339985
This image must strike fear into the ruling classes of Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc ….
Good thread thanks Majid
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 29, 2011 - 03:33pm PT
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From Jan's post and forward, I'd say that Mubarek is done for...
The people need a voice, and the class system that holds them in abject poverty and starvation needs to be destroyed. I hope that the CIA didn't set this up...
The religious crazies need to be kept away, and radical militant Islam is in reality no friend of the populace. It's just another caste system based on rerligious intolerance.
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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Jan 29, 2011 - 05:21pm PT
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1.5 billion in aid from the USA goes mainly to Egypts military, they are not going to do anything to jepordize that funding
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 29, 2011 - 05:27pm PT
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Correction: it's $1.8 billion.
That needs to be eliminated. Why, I might ask, do we need to be "buying off" the Egyptians that way/
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 29, 2011 - 09:55pm PT
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Buying off countries we'd like to see cooperate with us sure beats invading their countries, killing their leaders, and converting the people there to Christianity to gain their compliance.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 29, 2011 - 10:21pm PT
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Chaz-
It used to be the method of choice, but now we have to borrow money from China to do it. Let's agree to let them borrow their OWN money instead. They've probably got better credit these days.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Jan 29, 2011 - 11:16pm PT
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"We need to address this through some type of malpractice reform in addition to getting the FDA under control. "
man...thats priceless.....you tells'em brah.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Jan 30, 2011 - 04:48am PT
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_egypt_protest
By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Hamza Hendawi, Associated Press – 19 mins ago
CAIRO – Thousands of inmates escaped prisons across Egypt on Sunday, including at least one jail that housed Muslim militants northwest of Cairo, adding to the chaos engulfing the country as anti-government protests continue to demand the ouster of longtime authoritarian President Hosni Mubarak.
Security officials said the prisoners escaped overnight from four jails after starting fires and clashing with guards. The inmates were helped by gangs of armed men who attacked the prisons, firing at guards in gun battles that lasted hours.
Looting and arson continued overnight as the police totally disappeared from the streets of the capital and several major Egyptian cities. There has been no explanation for why the police have vanished.
The vacuum left by the police has prompted residents to form neighborhood protection groups, armed with firearms, sticks and clubs to set up self-styled checkpoints and barricades to ward off looting gangs roaming Cairo and other cities. The groups set up barricades, using bricks and metal traffic barriers.
Groups of youths also directed traffic in parts of Cairo, chasing away gangs of criminals smashing passing cars. Residents said gangs were also stopping people on the streets and robbing them.
At least one shopping mall was on fire Sunday morning after it was looted the previous day.
Army helicopters were flying low over the city.
The army appears to be reinforcing its presence on the streets of Cairo, but entire neighborhoods remained without any troops two days after Mubarak called the army out on the streets to restore order.
The security officials said several inmates were killed and wounded during the escapes early Sunday, but gave no specific figures. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to share the information with the media.
State Egyptian television, meanwhile, said authorities have decided to close down the Cairo offices of the Qatar-based Al-Jazzera television and suspend the accreditation of its reporters.
The Egyptian TV did not give a reason for the move, but Egyptian authorities have often in the past charged that station's coverage of events in Egypt was sensational or biased against Mubarak's regime.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Jan 30, 2011 - 04:50am PT
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_us_egypt
By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Jim Kuhnhenn, Associated Press – Sun Jan 30, 12:04 am ET
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama issued a plea for restraint in Egypt after meeting with national security aides Saturday to assess the Cairo government's response to widespread protests threatening the stability of the country.
A White House statement said Obama "reiterated our focus on opposing violence and calling for restraint, supporting universal rights, and supporting concrete steps that advance political reform within Egypt."
But Obama offered no reaction to President Hosni Mubarak's decision earlier Saturday to name a vice president for the first time since coming to power nearly 30 years ago. Mubarak appointed his intelligence chief, Omar Suleiman, who's well respected by American officials. The president also fired his Cabinet.
Five days of protests have left at more than 70 dead.
Before Suleiman's appointment, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said the U.S. wanted to see Mubarak fulfill his pledges of reform as protests swept the country.
"The Egyptian government can't reshuffle the deck and then stand pat," Crowley said on his Twitter account. "President Mubarak's words pledging reform must be followed by action."
Crowley said Egyptians "no longer accept the status quo. They are looking to their government for a meaningful process to foster real reform."
After speaking to Mubarak by telephone late Friday, Obama delivered a four minute statement calling on the Egyptian leader to take steps to democratize his government and refrain from using violence against his people.
As events unfolded Saturday, Obama and his advisers kept a low profile.
The president spent part of the morning watching one of his daughter's basketball games at a community center in the Maryland suburbs.
At the White House, top diplomatic, security and intelligence officials gathered for two hours for review the situation in Egypt. The meeting was led by national security adviser Tom Donilon and included White House chief of staff William Daley and CIA Director Leon Panetta. Vice President Joe Biden, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and Margaret Scobey, the U.S. ambassador to Egypt, participated by teleconference, the White House said.
Obama did not attend that session.
His afternoon meeting with many of the same officials also included press secretary Robert Gibbs and adviser David Plouffe.
Suleiman has played an active role in the peace process, particularly in trying to arrange compromise between rival Palestinian factions, Fatah and Hamas. He has been at the forefront of the Egyptian effort to crackdown on arms smuggling from Egypt into Gaza.
Suleiman has been "the point person on both the U.S. relationship and the Israel Egyptian relationship," said Jon Alterman, Mideast director at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "He's very reassuring both ways."
Diplomatic cables released by Wikileaks help illustrate that point. One reports on an April 2009 meeting between Suleiman and Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Suleiman, the cable says, "explained that his overarching regional goal was combating radicalism, especially in Gaza, Iran, and Sudan."
The cable reports that Suleiman said Egypt must "confront" Iranian attempts to smuggle arms to Gaza and quotes him saying "a Gaza in the hands of radicals will never be calm."
A 2007 cable discusses scenarios for presidential succession and reports the view of an Egyptian official that Mubarak's son Gamal viewed Suleiman as a potential threat.
A second cable from 2007 describes Suleiman as Mubarak's "consigliore," a term more typically associates with mobsters. Even then, Suleiman was mentioned as likely to assume the role of vice president. It says Suleiman himself "adamantly denies any personal ambitions, but his interest and dedication to national service is obvious."
"He could be attractive to the ruling apparatus and the public at large as a reliable figure unlikely to harbor ambitions for another multi-decade presidency," the cable states. It also says Mubarak had promised to name Suleiman vice president "several years ago" but then reneged.
The cables were sent by the U.S. Embassy in Cairo.
Alterman said Suleiman's elevation to vice president is designed by Mubarak to signal resolve.
"It is intended to send a message that if Hosni Mubarak leaves, the system remains," he said. "It is not reassuring to the protestors, but it is reassuring to people who fear that Egypt might be slipping into chaos."
Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla, chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said Saturday that Mubarak should schedule elections in order to allow the Egyptian people to express their right to choose their leaders.
Ros-Lehtinen also cautioned against the involvement of extremist elements which could seek to use the current turmoil as an opportunity to advance their agendas.
"The Egyptian people need to be afforded a peaceful venue to express their will," she said.
In New York, Cambridge, Mass., and Washington, protesters took to the streets demanding that Mubarak step down.
Outside the Egyptian Embassy a few miles from the White House, demonstrators also criticized the Obama administration's response to the tumult in Egypt. They waved Egyptian flags and held signs that read "Obama: Democracy or Hypocrisy?" and "Victory to the Egyptian People!"
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jan 30, 2011 - 05:43am PT
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I think the events in Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen and Algeria demonstrate peoples' universal repulsion at being subject to dictators, and the ultimate inability of repressive governments to keep outside information from their people. The roles of the internet and Twitter in allowing the activists to communicate shows this.
I agree with Jan; the Mubarik reign will fall (so to speak). The new regime, whatever it is, will almost certainly differ from what we consider ideal, but the Egyptians have the right to choose what they want, not what we do. I just hope we have enough insight not to do what we did with the Shah in Iran and prop up an unpopular, repressive, and doomed regime.
In response to broken's posts, fattrad has it right: the cost of foreign aid pales in comparison to the ultimate cost of entitlements. I see that debate, however, as better suited for the "Republicans" thread than here. I do think, however, that U.S. foreign policy is fair game on this thread, so. . .
To me, Rand Paul's neo-isolationism makes as much sense as the Isolationists' positions did from 1920-1941. Events in the rest of the world affect Americans' lives. Besides, if we do not stand for democracy and self-determination for all people, I think we lose a big part of our national morality. It's the same with humanitarian aid. The world affects us here, and we affect the world. I find it neither moral nor expedient to hide our heads and hoard our dollars.
John
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 30, 2011 - 09:30am PT
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Agreed. We cannot have medical costs continuing to escalate and thus having Medicare eating our lunch. We need to address this through some type of malpractice reform in addition to getting the FDA under control.
Malpractice related expenses are a whopping 2% of health care costs.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 30, 2011 - 09:32am PT
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We should have done the Cheney plan better and toppled them all when we had all forces deployed.
YOU are the problem.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 30, 2011 - 10:54am PT
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Dirtbag-
The "visible portion" that you mention is but the tip of the iceberg; it's the associated cost to the hospitals, doctors, laboratories, etc. of malpractice insurance hidden in their fee schedules.
The eligibility issue is much worse, with the requirement of treating the indigent and non-resident aliens for free, that runs up the expensse for fee paying patients. Maybe you know the acronym TANSTAAFL? There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch? Somebody's gotta pay the bills. And that's US, bro.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 30, 2011 - 11:00am PT
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Getting back to the theme of the thread
John-
I'm afraid that we need to get our own house in order before doling out cash to other countries; our Foreign Policy generally is paying others to do our bidding...
As Everett Dirksen said many years ago; "A billion here, a billion there---pretty soon you're talking about some real money." That was at a time that a billion WAS real money.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 30, 2011 - 11:09am PT
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Dingus-
Just remember that we bought the bullets... Gaaak!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 30, 2011 - 01:28pm PT
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For a fictional but chilling look at the future, read "Caliphate," by Tom Kratman. Some excellent military-oriented SF.
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