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Luke Malatesta
Big Wall climber
Moab UT
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
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Thread Update:
I just got off the phone with the machine shop. Project is moving Now.
I will have a proto in my hot little hands by the first of the year.
I think that we will pass on the titanium as the prices are pretty high. I will post up some pictures as soon as I have the proto.
Tell anyone you guys may be know that maybe interested.
Happy Holidays.
Luke
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 22, 2010 - 03:51pm PT
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Sounds great, Luke!
@Aric-
“One thing I neglected to mention is that the socket for the collet has a hard stop at the end, which provides a solid connection between the shaft and drill for increased efficiency while hammering (and hopefully less tenancy for loosening of the nut/collet).”
This is also the case with the Hurricane – the bottom of the drill bit sits against the bottom of the collet socket on the holder. My Hurricanes have developed a slight dimple at the bottom of the collet socket where the drill bit seats. But it’s just normal wear and it hasn’t caused any sort of a problem.
I like the aluminum cross bar idea on your design but think that it will get beat up pretty quickly from missed hammer blows. It would have to be made of a pretty durable aluminum alloy, but not too hard and brittle because then it might snap off when hit with a hammer. Even the most experienced hand drillers get a little sloppy with the hammer from time to time, hence the rubber grip flange on hand drills for hand protection. Also, I wonder if the extra bulk of the cross bar would make it more difficult to get the drill out of the bolt bag, especially at dicey stances. I am not familiar with the ER16 collet and am not sure how much the collet nut would have to be torqued to keep the drill bit tight. If the cross bar is long enough to provide enough leverage to torque the collet nut, then I guess you are good to go. I’d have to experiment with this tightening system while on lead to really see how it works.
Still likin’ the replaceable striking head idea! How well do you think those threads will hold up?
The aluminum shank sleeve looks great, and saves some significant weight, I would bet. Do you think that the aluminum sleeve will absorb some of the harsh vibration while drilling, and act as a dampener of sorts, because it is not hard steel? Hmmm… Looks good!
The tag hole washer idea is interesting too; having the wrist-loop or leash on the front of the drill holder is something that might take some getting used to. But with this design, anyone can use simple perlon cord to replace the leash, should it become damaged.
I personally like a wrist-loop because it is simple and doesn’t get in the way. I keep my blow-tube on a leash and think that two leashes would start to create potential for a clusterF in mid stance (drilling) – not recommended. I also like the durability of 3/32” cable. Use 7x7! 7x19 is too flexible and the drill holder loop of cable doesn’t hold a round shape to minimize groove friction when turning the holder.
Another thing to think about with the tag hole washer idea is clearance for your hand between the rubber grip flange and the tag hole washer. With this design, the distance between the rubber grip flange/cross bar and the tag hole washer has to be long enough to accommodate those with big paws. The use of gloves in cold conditions will require an even greater distance between the two. This means that the holder would have to be longer than the Hurricane, which then brings back more weight.
I find that the Hurricane holder is quite comfortable ergonomically, once I throw a bunch of cloth tape around the grip to beef it up and bevel off the bottom edge (circumference) of the rubber grip with a razor knife. The collet nut on the Hurricane fits nicely within the grasp of my pinky finger. With this “open ended” design, there are no limits to paw/glove size. See Hurricane photo below.
Edit: Hey, where’s Roger Brown during all of this…? He has probably put the Hurricane through more abuse than anyone. Roger, are you out there? Have any comments to share? Where’s that photo of your “used” Hurricanes? Clint?
And where did Mr. Barnes go?
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Dec 22, 2010 - 10:09pm PT
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A picture _AND_ a thousand words! Thanks Minerals!
Let's see... I'm currently planning on using 1/4" thick 7075T6 for the cross bar, but the only way to know how well it will hold up is to give it a try. In case it doesn't work out swapping it out for something else will be easy. As for its size, I don't expect it to stick out much past the flange on the grip so I don't think getting in and out of the bag will be an issue. Judging from how the ER16 chuck on my mill behaves I suspect that the 3" or so T-handle on the end provided by the cross bar should be sufficient. And actually, my original thought was to have it be circular for hand protection but it got cut down for weight reduction.
Threads on the striking piece should hold up fine, since they'll not actually be taking the impact; rather the end of the shaft will bottom out in the hole in the piece and the force will be mostly transferred through that interface.
I don't think the aluminum will help at all with vibration. I used to know the reason why I think this, but it has apparently passed from memory. All I remember was discussing bike frames with my brother 15 years ago and explaining why aluminum ones give a harsher ride than cromoly.
As for the tag hole washer, judging by your pic it looks like I had misjudged how big a Hurricane is.... I thought the blueprint said the shaft was 5.5" long, but looking again I see it's actually 4.5". I'll move the washer back to the hammer end between the cross piece and striking piece since having it stick out between your pinky and ring finger would not only be annoying, but uncomfortable as well.
The material showed up today, so hopefully I'll have some pics next week...
-aric.
Oh, and for anyone tuning in late- this is _NOT_ the drill design Luke is having made. He's doing a run of the original Hurricanes and this design is a side discussion that developed as a result of questions about collet systems.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 23, 2010 - 02:09am PT
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“A picture _AND_ a thousand words!”
Heh… Yeah, I can get carried away with this stuff. Prototyping can be pretty fun, as you know. So, you like my cereal killer photo, huh? :)
Here’s 1000 words and two pictures…
OK, thanks for the info, Aric. I’m curious to see how the cross bar piece works out. Looking forward to seeing some photos of some cool metal!
As far as the threads on the striking piece, I was wondering if they would start to wear, even if the striking piece is bottomed out against the drill holder shank. I guess not. Good to go with some loctite until it’s in need of replacement, aye? Nice feature, which, provided the threads hold up on the shank, will extend the overall life of the drill. Will the ID/OD tolerances be tight enough on the striking piece and shank such that the end of the shank cannot mushroom within the striking piece, making it very difficult to remove?
With respect to vibration dampening, what if the aluminum sleeve was somehow semi-free-floating, and stuck to the shank with some sort of flexible, but strong glue. The aluminum sleeve would be semi-attached to the shank by a retaining ring of sorts at either end, to keep it in position. I dunno… Just thinking of possible ways to use your design to minimize vibration, since there are more parts to deal with.
One thing that might be of concern is the thinner cross-section of the shank. I’m not a mechanical engineer, but it looks like the step-down between the collet socket and the thinner shank may be a weak point. The Hurricane is not super-light (it’s not heavy either), but it is also quite durable, because the shank is solid steel. I would worry that with time, those of us who like to hit the drill pretty hard might break the holder. What do you think about the strength of that shank, compared to the Hurricane? Unfortunately, not all hammer force is exerted to the drill holder directly along its axis (tired of swinging the hammer yet…?). Hence, the (hopefully) rare snapped bit, or worse, the possibility of a broken holder if it is not burly enough. Side forces (for lack of a proper term…) need to be addressed with a holder design as well as axial forces. (I think I might need a physics refresher from Ed!!!)
“EDIT- Actually, it looks like Theron spec'd 4340 @ HRC46-48 for the D5 hammers, so it would probably work just fine for the striking face if dropped down a bit to something like HRC35-40. Unless you have another suggestion I think that's the way I'll go with it.”
HRC35-40 seems pretty soft, but if the piece is replaceable, then why create additional wear to the hammer? I suppose you could just keep replacing that part, provided you had a few on hand. If such a design ever went into production, it would be cool to have 2 or 3 replacements included with the drill, with more available upon order. Why do they call it “brainstorming” when sunny days are so much more exhilarating…? Ummmm…
Aric, this has been fun discussing design ideas and I hope your prototyping goes well. Keep us posted. Thanks!
Back to the Scorpions, because yes, the rock will always admit that it likes a Hurricane… Bah dump dump… :)
With regard to the hardened striking insert in the Hurricane holder, Bruce mentioned earlier that he didn’t like this feature because it messed up some of his hammers. Linda recently acquired a used BD hammer that was found at the Base of El Cap (thank you, Greg Stock) and so we put her to work against a granitic boulder again, for more drilling practice. She had previously been using a McDevitt hammer, along with her almost new Hurricane. After a short while, we noticed that the face of the BD hammer had a bunch of crescent-shaped dents in it, from the edge of the hardened insert on the Hurricane, of course.
I think the BD hammer is too soft, and that the dents are a hammer issue, rather than a drill holder issue. I haven’t had any problems with my McDevitt hammers as a result of drilling with the Hurricanes, but I think the steel is much harder on those hammers than that of the cast BD hammer, and possibly other hammers as well. I haven’t used my A5 hammer in conjunction with my Hurricane drills enough to know how the hammer face holds up over time, but I bet it’s not bad.
Take a look at Mikey’s BD hammer in the thread that he started:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1332659/My-Hammer
For long-term durability of a drill holder, a hardened insert is key. Locker mentioned earlier that the RocPec mushrooms quickly; it sounds like this drill isn’t the most reliable over time, and it may have a shorter overall lifespan than a Hurricane. I’ve been using my Hurricanes since the mid and late 90’s and there’s no way that they would have held up the way they have without the hardened insert. As mentioned earlier, with a little grinding to remove the mushroom around the striking surface, the drill is returned to a new-like condition again. They have been very dependable and have served me well.
More questions…
What’s the hardness of the insert in the Hurricane? And, what, approximately, does H900 in stainless translate to in HRC, for say, 4130, if that makes sense? From insert, to holder, to hammer… what kind of hardness range are we talking about?
The striking end of the Hurricane. The hardened inserts on the left and right drills are smaller in diameter and the insert in the center drill is larger in diameter. These holders are of different age and are from different production batches. I haven’t noticed much of a difference between the two insert types, as far as wear, durability, or drilling is concerned. As you can see, after another season of use (248 holes), these holders are again due for a trip to the grinder.
The last thing this McDevitt hammer did was drill three 3/8” holes in granite with a Hurricane drill. Note the smooth hammer face. Periodically, I take the hammer to a grinder to remove any mushrooming of the head. I’m not sure of the exact hardness of this hammer, but it isn’t afraid of a Hurricane...
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Dec 23, 2010 - 10:52am PT
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"Fun" doesn't even begin to describe how much I'm enjoying this... :-)
Will the ID/OD tolerances be tight enough on the striking piece and shank such that the end of the shank cannot mushroom within the striking piece, making it very difficult to remove?
It's not shown in the earlier diagram, but I'm planning on removing the threads at the very end of the shaft and have that bit fit into a tight fitting bore in the striking piece. And actually, having that part tapered wouldn't be a bad idea. Anyway, this should help protect the threads and prevent mushrooming.
With respect to vibration dampening...
Well, if we move the tag hole washer up to a shoulder on the striking piece we could easily mount the sleeve with a slight clearance fit and use an o-ring on either end of it to help isolate it from the vibration. With the striking piece tightened down there should be enough friction to allow for rotating the drill, and you've got the cross piece should you need something to twist in case the drill gets stuck. Seems good in theory, no?
One thing that might be of concern is the thinner cross-section of the shank....
Well, near as I can figure it'll work just fine since the 1/2" diameter of the shank is larger than the drill capacity, so if anything is going to go it would be the drill. (translation: I'm far to lazy to actually run the calculations and prefer to work with ballparks and gut feel. :-) )
HRC35-40 seems pretty soft, but if the piece is replaceable, then why create additional wear to the hammer?
My thoughts exactly. Plus this way it's soft enough to be easily worked with a file, so no grinder necessary.
I think the BD hammer is too soft...
FWIW, here's my recent-vintage BD hammer... It came out as ~HRC38. Oh, and yes, I have a Rockwell/Wilson hardness tester in my basement. :-)
Not the best of setups, but I did mill flats on the sides for the penetrator and spot anvil so it should be in the ballpark. For comparison, my two favorite ball pein hammers (which is the proper tool to use on chisels and whatnot) are ~HRC50-53 when measured the same way. The two cheap ones I don't particularly like so much came out in the mid-40's. So yeah, I'd call the BD hammer at HRC38 a bit on the soft side.
What’s the hardness of the insert in the Hurricane? And, what, approximately, does H900 in stainless translate to in HRC, for say, 4130, if that makes sense? From insert, to holder, to hammer… what kind of hardness range are we talking about?
IIRC Luke said he was going to use a hardened dowel that's ~HRC58-60. The hardness of 17-4PH in H900 condition is ~HRC42-45. I'm curious what the spec on the original insert was, as that looks to me like the insert that hard would hold up fine, but the hammer... ? Then again, I now see that the insert is fully contained within the shaft so perhaps it works fine if your hammer is up to snuff.
-a.
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Conrad
climber
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Dec 23, 2010 - 11:10am PT
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2 cents:
Per my observations and occasional hand drilling experience.
The roc pec is simpler, lighter and does not require additional tools to set the bit. The float in the SDS has two benefits: the bit binds less in the hole and the float dampens the hammering effect, lessening the stress on my wrist and elbow during the drilling process. These are my observations and are by no means factual.
I hand sharpen the bits on a Diamond Stone set in a vice. The carbide tip gets wicked sharp and does not heat up. On a similar note I do not use a grinder to sharpen ice picks. A small file in one's crampon pouch keeps the nicks at bay.
The quality of the hole is my end measure for a drill, not the speed.
And SDS... how about Students for a Democratic Society?
Thanks John for the link to Mike Taggett. Glad to see his ingenuity benefiting the greater good.
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Luke Malatesta
Big Wall climber
Moab UT
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2010 - 12:38am PT
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Minerals,
I think I read earlier in a post that one of your wrenches did something similar to this.
And the Back Side
I am wondering if anyone else out there has had this issue with theirs.It still works but for how long?
I used some cheap ass calipers I had laying around to measure the thickness of them.
7/8"
and the 9/16
I am thinking that I may need to beef up the thickness of the 9/16. I do not see any cracks in the 7/8" wrench.
The patterns That I have quoted in this project are:
and
Of course i will have holes in the opposite end for a clip in loop.
The other option would be to have the wrenchs lazer cut out of steel instead of stamped. I have found an outfit that does this but it would add more cost to the project though. By going with the lazer cutting, we could have a double ended set up and have a custom size. One end for the drill and the other for bolts.
I am just throwing some ideas out there.
I did find a bit a while ago that was pretty slick. It is a reduced shank 3/8 bit with a carbide tip. A shorter set up for those who like to use the SDS bit, but loose the length. No need to chop a bit down to use the carbide tip. Just use a 9/32 (i think?) collet.
Anyone ever use one of these?
It is the black one in the picture.
and in the drill
@ Aric...I checked into the Mcmaster order and it shows that those grips re set to ship on 1-10. If yours come before throw a picture up. I'd love to see them.
Thanks,
Luke
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Dec 24, 2010 - 09:27am PT
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That's weird, Luke. Mine came in 2 days out of Chicago, with the delay only due to them not having in stock at the local warehouse (I usually get stuff next day out of NJ so long as I get the order in before 4pm).
Anyway, here it is:
The flange is 2" diameter and it looks like the grip will measure ~1-3/8" diameter where it will get cut off. The root of the ribs is a constant ~1-1/8" and overall the grip feels pretty darned comfy. Oh, and it is a fairly tight fit on 7/8" diameter.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Dec 24, 2010 - 11:38am PT
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Luke... Check your e-mail.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Dec 24, 2010 - 11:58am PT
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And SDS... how about Students for a Democratic Society?
Surprised this didn't generate a hail of "commie" whining.
Maybe once the politards find their way to Wiki.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Dec 24, 2010 - 02:57pm PT
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Ok Guys, I've gotten this as far as I can until some tooling shows up next week, so may as well post some pics. It weighs in at a hair under 12 ounces (including the collet and locknut), and I think I could probably shave a bit off of that total.
Items still needing to be done:
1. threading the nose of the shank for the locknut (I'm missing the pair of gears I need to thread Metric on my lathe, so waiting on a threadmill),
2. making a proper striking piece (no way I'm going to try threading a blind hole on a manual lathe, so also waiting on the threadmill),
3. heat treatment,
4. testing how well the collet locks using the cross bar and shortening it if possible (and maybe narrowing it as well),
5. testing how well the tag hole washer holds up to missed hammer blows.
One thing to note is that I extended the grip down onto the large diameter of the shank since there are no wrench flats there to worry about (well, no wrench flats involved in tightening/loosening the collet, that is). This makes it quite comfy for the pinky finger and seems provide enough friction between the grip and shank to allow rotating the drill without epoxying the grip in place. Another thought is that there's no particular reason a ring from the grip couldn't be epoxied to the locknut to further extend the grip or to maintain the current grip length while shortening the length of the shank.
Anyway, that's where it's at. Once I get it finished I'd be more than happy to send it along to you, Minerals, for a thorough shakedown.
-aric.
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Luke Malatesta
Big Wall climber
Moab UT
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2010 - 03:11pm PT
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Looking good Aric. Thanks for the photos of the grips. I can't wait to check them out.
Luke
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 25, 2010 - 09:15pm PT
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OK, got some catching up to do here…
Luke, that cracked 9/16” wrench looks just like the one that I have.
It seems like one of these days the thing will snap. I use the lighter wrench set as sort of a backup; the heavier wrench set is attached to my quarter-inch bolt bag, which I pretty much always lead with. If I pull up the 3/8” kit on lead, I can use the wrenches from the quarter-inch kit on the 3/8” drill.
If you are going to go with the lighter 9/16” wrench design, yes, it would be good to beef it up a little. I recommend going with an open-end wrench for the 7/8” size, if it’s possible. I much prefer the open-end to the closed-end, as mentioned earlier in my wrench post.
Not sure if the mic that I have is accurate, but for thickness, I get ~0.138” for the lightweight 9/16” and 7/8” wrenches, and ~0.180” for the heavier 7/8” open-end wrench.
Here’s a link back to my post with the wrench photo:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1350513&msg=1354487#msg1354487
“By going with the lazer cutting, we could have a double ended set up and have a custom size. One end for the drill and the other for bolts.”
That is a great idea!
A custom wrench would be sweet. One end would be 9/16” for the Hurricane, and the other could be 1/2”, to accommodate 3/8” 5-piece bolts. That would eliminate the need to carry a third wrench, like the 1/2” wrench pictured below. The wrench could also be a designated bolt wrench, even for those who use a different drill, such as the Petzl. With one wrench, you could deal with the three main types of bolts in use today – 3/8” and 1/2” 5-piece bolts, as well as 3/8” wedge bolts. If you do go with a custom wrench, it might be good to make extras. I’d buy a couple just for bolts, and maybe donate a case of ‘em to the ASCA. Could you put a hole in the center of the wrench, for a leash, provided it doesn’t compromise strength?
Re. black, non-SDS carbide bit. Does the smaller diameter shank of the bit seat against the drill holder, or is it floating, with the step-up part of the bit bottomed out on the top edge of the collet? I have seen non-SDS carbide bits with a constant diameter shank, but not the step-down model that you have pictured.
Good stuff, Luke!
Aric, thanks for explaining more of your design ideas. That sounds good to me, but I’m curious how the 1/2” shank will hold up over time. If it’s strong enough, then hey, it’s lighter.
Thanks for checking the BD hammer hardness. Yeah, HRC38 is pretty soft for a hammer. Wonder if it’s because of liability reasons… Cool photo too!
Looks like your prototype is coming along nicely. The grip looks good and it doesn’t have the uncomfortable ribs like the Hurricane, and especially the Petzl. Yeah, the tag hole washer might take a beating – have to see how that works. One advantage of a cable wrist-loop is that it can be replaced fairly easily if it gets damaged. Simply snip off the old cable and swage up a new one. These days, it isn’t too difficult to find someone with a swager who can re-cable stuff.
The grip may still require some sort of glue, in addition to friction, I’m guessing. Only one way to find out… It’s probably best to keep the collet nut free of grip material; the Hurricane has a gap between the grip and the collet nut and it’s still comfy and doesn’t cause problems.
Sure, I’d be happy to give it a go! Thanks! Nice work!
Does anyone know the weight of the Hurricane, with a 25/64” collet and no bit? I don’t see weight listed in the Hurricane info that is included with the drill.
pdf version of Hurricane info/owner’s manual found here:
http://www.deuce4.net/web/HMWbrochure.pdf
Thanks for your post, Conrad. I agree that the Petzl drill is simpler than the Hurricane, and that it may work well for those who don’t do a whole lot of drilling, or worry too much about drilling speed. From some of the earlier posts, it sounds like the Petzl drill has some issues pertaining to durability and lifespan. Greg let me borrow his Petzl to try out, but that’s about the extent of my experience with it. My main complaint is that I really, really don’t like SDS bits in the first place. With the Petzl drill, you have no choice but to use SDS bits. The loose float of the SDS bit is annoying to me while drilling – it feels sloppy and there is less control over the bit. But this may just be a matter of personal preference.
Another thing that I don’t like about SDS bits (in addition to how slow they drill) is the wobble. Since the carbide insert is wider than the diameter of the fluted shank, the bit never sits tight in the hole; it constantly wobbles, no matter how deep the hole is. This is the main reason why SDS bits rarely bind (provided you are not drilling out a smaller diameter hole…). I find that with the loose fit/wobble, you have to be more careful to keep the drill bit centered while drilling. Once the hole is half an inch or so deep, a HSS bit stays centered because the shank is a constant diameter. I am able to drill faster when I don’t have to worry about constantly keeping the drill bit centered. A HSS bit has very little wobble and you don’t have to grip the drill as much, or as precisely during the drilling process. Of course, you have to make sure that the hole is straight (perpendicular/orthogonal to the rock surface) to begin with, but then it’s off to the races we go.
As Greg mentioned earlier, it is only a matter of time before the carbide tip on an SDS bit will shatter. Depending on your drilling style, you may get 100 holes out of a bit, or you may get only 10. Once the tip shatters, there’s nothing that you can do with the bit, aside from throwing it in your shrapnel collection. At 10 to 15 bucks per bit, a buck a hole gets a little expensive over time. The McDevitt hammer is heavier than the A5 hammer and I hit the drill pretty hard, hence, I ruin SDS bits pretty quickly. But now, to minimize frustration and cost, I only use SDS bits for drilling out quarter-inch holes when rebolting. 100% of my lead drilling is done with HSS bits.
The SDS carnage
Good, um… “point” about using a hand file to sharpen your ice tool picks. ;) Taking a thin piece of heat-treated metal to a grinder would be a bad idea. The Hurricane holder has enough mass that it acts as a heat sink and I grind very lightly, in order to keep the metal cool. Thanks for the reminder about those temperamental pieces that we have to be really careful with.
Quality is something that I never compromise in any of my bolting work, and if I can get that hole finished in way less time using a HSS bit, then why not spend less time trembling on that dicey stance? The quicker the bolt is clipped, the better the chance of not going for a ride. With bolting, it seems that quality (or lack thereof) is most often a function of operator skill (or error), rather than the type of tool used.
Oh, and if we are going for off-topic acronyms, I prefer…
Scientists against the Devolution of our Species (aka Give Darwin His job back!!!)
:)
Cheers,
Bryan
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 25, 2010 - 09:25pm PT
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This thread needed some carnage. Nice, Bryan. Don't mind me, I enjoy watching the drill porn fly.
With intrest(!) hehehe.
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mctwisted
climber
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Dec 25, 2010 - 10:02pm PT
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Scientists against the Devolution of our Species (aka Give Darwin His job back!!!)
bryan , thats the brightest thing i heard all day!
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Luke Malatesta
Big Wall climber
Moab UT
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2010 - 10:30pm PT
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Minerals,
glad to see I am not the only one with the wrench issue!
I will check to see where that bit sits in relation to the collet and drill when I get back home around the 1st. I did not even think to look.
I ll call the outfit who does the laser cutting when I return as well, I think it was a few bucks more per wrench, but that was a quote for 100 of each in a standard size. I like the idea of having them lazercut instead of stamped and having a more versitile tool.
Well off to Ohio for the next week. If everything goes as planned I will be returning with a proto!
Happy holidays everyone.
Luke
ps: I'll try and bounce in and out on this thread from time to time
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:56am PT
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I know it's been asked, but I haven't seen an answer yet... Anyone happen to have a Hurricane and a postal scale handy? I'm very curious how much they weigh, but would settle for simply more / equal to / less than a Petzl Rocpeck.
Thx!
-aric.
EDIT- Oh, and @Minerals- I just happened across a comparison of ER and DA collets you might be interested in. The key bit being that for the same torque on the locknut, an ER collet will provide 3 times the clamping power of the DA collet. I also found a manufacturer spec sheet for ER16 and it seems the recommended max torque on the locknut is ~35ft-lb, so I think this will work nicely. I'll be finishing off my prototypes over the next couple days, so drop me your snailmail address (to the email on my ST profile) and I'll get one out to you for testing. Looks like it'll be coming in around 9oz (assuming the densities on my solid models are correct), so not much more than a Rocpecker.
EDIT x2- Clarification: That's 9oz for just the grip and shank assemblies (read: doesn't include the collet, nut or leash).
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:58am PT
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I own both Aric, I can drag them in to work and put them on the Setra if no one has done it first.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:15am PT
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Thanks Couchmaster!
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:10pm PT
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Aric, thanks for restating the weight question. I think the Hurricane is heavier than the Petzl, but the question is by how much.
Thanks for the collet article too!
Email sent.
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