Wikileaks question

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dirtbag

climber

Nov 29, 2010 - 03:03pm PT

That's not what he said Fatty.

This is what he said (emphasis mine):

Pretty clear from this that you cannot view all majority Islamic countries as a single bloc or civilization. Pretty clear that there are certain countries (Iran) that are viewed an extreme and/or a threat by other Islamic countries with which the US has better relations.

dirtbag

climber

Nov 29, 2010 - 03:18pm PT

Again, fatty, you have presented, ad nauseum, the idea that there is a (singular) clash of civilizations, something that some of us here have all along said was not true.

And certainly the Wiki leaks is yet more evidence--though plenty was already available--that the Muslim world is not a singular civilization.

A list of Muslim countries not interested in destroying us would be longer.

Do you lie awake at night worrying about Qatar coming to get us?

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Nov 29, 2010 - 03:29pm PT

Sounds like the government of Turkey is about as focused and united as that of Israel. Democracy sure is great, ain't it?

dirtbag

climber

Nov 29, 2010 - 03:39pm PT

There is no C of C.

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Nov 29, 2010 - 03:44pm PT

Take a powder, Fatty:

Jingy

climber

Somewhere out there

Nov 29, 2010 - 03:56pm PT

Werner - "There must be a root reason for wikileaks.

What really is their aim?"

Their aim is to provide the world (not just America) with a clear picture of what is happening in "the wars".
Taken from a standpoint of a lay-person, this may be more information than most would be able to make sense of. But with a little review of the information, a clearer picture of what is happening comes to light.

When the military says one thing, then their own internal documents show that they "know" something completely different.. that should raise a few eyebrows, and beg a few questions from the public.

After all, what the US military is doing in the name of "Justice"/'Freedom" should be te first question people ask before agreeing to go to war in the first place.

"Just plain splattering documents onto the WWW web with no goal behind them doesn't strike me as what their real aim is for.

They have some kind of agenda?"

right.. You can think of it in terms of what happened when the US news started reporting about what was going on in Viet Nam. Once the American public became aware of the things that were being done in their name, they started asking questions, thus ending the war, but not after much push back from the administration in power at the time.

If this statement was in reference to the video of the two journalists getting shot to smithereens... they were reporters with routers, not talaban, not insurgents, not criminals.. just targets for the US military.. along with some kids... Military said it was one thing, video shows yet another thing.

You make the call.

"I don't know where to though although I can guess or it's anyone guess?"

Werner... not sure what you meant by this..

but in the name of America, you should know what your military is doing in/around the world so that you have all the facts when its time to make your call.

good luck

dirtbag

climber

Nov 29, 2010 - 03:56pm PT

boobs

BOOBS!

WBraun

climber

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2010 - 03:59pm PT

WikiLeaks insured from gov't intrusion?

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/295597#ixzz16PdfFV00

http://cryptome.org/0002/wikileaks-crack.htm

WBraun

climber

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2010 - 04:57pm PT

Here's the official web site of the "Secret US Embassy Cables"

http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Nov 29, 2010 - 06:25pm PT

werner why on tangible earth would YOU ever need to ask a question?

sir, you've the mystery and the bat that subdues it all neatly tucked into your pocket.

dirtbag

climber

Nov 29, 2010 - 06:26pm PT

Dude, "Infowars"? Seriously?

nutjob

Trad climber

Berkeley, CA

Nov 29, 2010 - 06:55pm PT

Disclaimer, I only read ~100 posts into this thread before feeling compelled to reply to a point from Klimmer:

It's about honesty. You don't negotiate by lying. You OK with the US lying to or about our allies?

This is the response of someone who has never had real-life negotiations with people who have strong vested interests.

I know nothing about real politics, but going through an unpleasant divorce has jaded my sense of how negotiations should work. I started 2.5 years ago with full disclosure, full statement of my position and what I wanted. I did not mess with "bargaining chips" and "fall-back positions" and all that. I just stuck it all out there on the table and said "we're two intelligent people who can divide up this stuff and figure out how to raise our children in a way that reflects both of our interests." Of course the part I forgot is if I could do that with my ex, we probably wouldn't have needed a divorce.

In any case, I screwed myself by assuming that any intelligent 3rd party could look at the facts and see what was fair and equal. I was very wrong. When you are dealing with smart adversaries who care more about winning than any notion of ethics or morality, you will not get a "fair" or equitable outcome if you play by the rules. It's like marching in formation on a battefield while the enemy hides behind logs and shoots you.

Dealing with this reality is the single biggest source of stress in my life, and is one reason why I think it's hard to cast judgment on the people in positions of high power with impossible decisions and folks examining them with a microscope. This is all in defense of government secrecy. But...

Maybe Wikileaks is like chemo-therapy in the evolution of cures against governmental cancer. It is not very targeted in good versus bad cells, but we just hope enough good ones survive the carnage that wipes out the bad ones.

Maybe in the future our society will evolve more targeted and effective treatments?

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Nov 29, 2010 - 07:02pm PT

nutjob, honesty sits sensually upon the charlatan's lap and thus
gestates a perpetuating myth that is accepted by you and me as reality.

the truth is a bastard for the lies are fleeting and never stick around to endure the challenges.

corniss chopper

Mountain climber

san jose, ca

Nov 29, 2010 - 07:07pm PT

fattrad - SecState Hillary looked tired after a busy weekend on the phone
with everyone. Those 4 way translator supported calls can weary the strongest. And when you have to make dozens! Can't imagine how many ashtrays got hurled for tension relief.

dirtbag

climber

Nov 29, 2010 - 08:37pm PT

Tell you what Fatty.

When you apologize for cheerleading a war that had nothing to do with any terrorist attack against us (Iraq), apologize for supporting the ensuing massive loss of life and treasury, and apologize for advocating policies that would result in more needless destruction and loss of life, then I'll apologize for whatever it is you think I'm supposed to apologize for.

Deal?