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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Emerson...ssssssexy keepers!
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Nice Fish, very nice
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Will the hammers be the first ever Fish/A5 product, so to speak?
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Fish_Products
Big Wall climber
FishProducts.com
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Will the hammers be the first ever Fish/A5 product, so to speak?
Next time I see you Anders we will have a history lesson.
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TMO
Trad climber
Puyallup, WA
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"The List" was a way of tracking "intention to buy" and to distribute information to those who so intended...
...I think there will be plenty of hammers to buy... I sent email out to everyone I had an address for...
thanks to all involved!
GO GET 'EM!
Thanks Ed and all involved.... I have one on order and am excited to see all this hard work and excitement come to fruition!
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Today an historic (or is it a historic... never did figure out that particular exception to the rule) event happened...
One very nice SuperTopo person bought a hammer for another SuperTopo person who could not afford it. It was purchased as gift.
**
That's some nice feelings right there...**
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Don't forget to honor the leash cutter!
That 'history' is kind of a full circle kind of thing?...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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This was a crazy project that happened in a not entirely predictable way...
...when I started the list my actual intent was to get an idea of how many people might be interested, it seemed an awful lot of work to go through making, say 1000 hammers when the world demand was 100...
but I didn't want people who signed up to declare a commitment to buy a hammer. Obviously, the price was unknown and the financial status of climbers is volatile even in good economic times, this project happened over the Great Recession, even more reason to be flexible in terms of commitments.
Because the actual howto of doing a grass roots manufacture of a tool is not laid out in detail, the financing of the hammer was an interesting issue because, in the end, there had to be a wad of money to purchase the components. Just how that wad was going to come into existence was unknown. I was wracking my own brain for some sort of socialist solution, but the great American tradition of investment came to the rescue and an unknown (at least to me) partner made the wad available.
I hope the list was useful in convincing whoever it was that there was some interest in buying the things... so market research.
Finally, it was not known how the orders were going to be placed and the money collected. In the end that was solved by ihateplastic making his commercial machinery available.
At this point the list became irrelevant, from my estimate, there were enough hammers for everyone who expressed an interest to get one if they wanted. They didn't commit any money to the project before hand, and by a fairly common line of logic, there was no obligation to those who had signed up by the hammer makers, or by me... although I would have felt bad if someone was denied a hammer that had been a stalwart hammer desire-er... that doesn't seem to be the case here.
I was trying to walk a line... maybe it got a little squirrelly at the end, but this has been pretty amazing. Once it's completely done it would be interesting to put together a story on how it happened, in some detail, for those who would try again in the future.
So I apologize to those who were deceived into believing that "The List" was something more than it actually was, it was not my intention to do that, but I could see how things happened and how expectations may have grown. Perhaps, given other circumstances, "The List" would have been more important that it ended up being, its role changed greatly throughout the course of the project.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Less deceived than believed, I think.
Like everything else we do, it'll sorta kinda mostly not quite work out.
I dunno.....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2010 - 10:24pm PT
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No, I think everyone owes Ed a debt of gratitude for maintaining the list. We did struggle long and hard as far back as three years ago as to how to manage this side of the project and the list helped immensely in keeping the momentum going.
But what to do? Take upfront payments? Take deposits? Letters of Intent? In the end the whole affair was so tenuous on every front - design, manufacture, financing, legal, etc. - that we didn't feel we could honestly take peoples' money upfront as back then there was a good chance we'd just have to figure out how to return it if things didn't pan out. We also didn't know how long we'd have to hold any such payments and it didn't seem reasonable to accept any when we couldn't say when hammers might materialize.
I personally owe Ed and all of you an apology for not having him send out an email version of the announcement prior to posting one. That was entirely my fault and born out of a combination of being too exhausted, too sick, too excited, and too much of a cadet as it just slipped my mind altogether with the other things I've been juggling of late. Again, that mistake was wholly my own and not on Theron, Simon, Ed, or anyone else.
That said, and as Ed mentions, short of having advance payments it's pretty hard to absolutely guarantee them. And as he also states, we made enough hammers for everyone to get theirs and still have some concerns about selling them all, though I suspect if we posted up elsewhere that would tap it out.
So if you were on the list and haven't ordered, please do so asap. If you know of anyone else on the list who doesn't check-in here very often we'd appreciate it if you could give them a jingle and let them know it's happening. If you were on the list and times got tough in the meantime and you need a bit to pull the cash together, please shoot Simon an email and I'm sure he'd be willing to hold one for you (a 'bit' being, say, like the end of the year).
Overall, it's been one of the strangest things I've ever been involved with. Part research, part detective, part wannabe inganeer, part beggar, and mostly hopeful. But John, Conrad, Theron, Russ, Simon, Ed, the original suppliers, and a bunch of other folks some of whom prefer to remain anonymous have all stepped up to make this happen and we owe them all big thanks.
I got involved because I'd been swinging a hammer for a couple of years of anchor replacements up in the Columbia River Gorge, but now - after receiving one of these - seems like I'm going to be obligated to actually get on a wall.
 Joseph
P.S. Also wanted to say that we're sad a few different folks didn't make it to see this pan out and feel a bit of lament around that - especially Curt Johnson (Dirtineye).
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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All I can say, again, is
THANK YOU ALL HARD WORKERS WHO PUT THIS SHOW TOGETHER.
WHAT AN AWESOME JOB YOU HAVE DONE!!!!!!!!!!
just sayin'. . .
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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no apology necessary on my behalf, Joseph, this was a hairball operation for sure and just how it was all going to pan out wasn't known from moment to moment
like I said, it would be great to set it all down, tell the story, it would be instructive on many fronts...
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squatch
Boulder climber
santa cruz, CA
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what if all the handles miraculously combust and the heads are destroyed by extreme accelerated rusting?
it's not over yet!
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Without getting too technical and businessy... it is against Visa/MasterCard rules, regulations, terms and conditions for a company that accepts credit card payments for a physical product to charge for the product unless it is going to be delivered to the end consumer within 30 days of payment. Now, we know some shipments take longer than that but I, for one, would not have taken a bunch of payments 12+ months ago as deposit and then have issues arise and need to refund the payments. Visa/MasterCard would have used the hammer on my delicate pieces.
Anyway, all is working out rather smoothly. Hammers are getting sold, people are (for the most part) going to get the number they desired, climbers are being reasonable and jolly and there are still hammers available.
NICE JOB!!! to the rest of the hammer crew and to the ST community!
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Thanks for keeping tabs on it for 3 or so long years Ed. I think most of us recognize that this just moved along in an organic way and sort of developed along, with lots of folks speaking. Unlike a company which can dictate exactly how it's going to roll, this was more loosy-goosy. That's fine too. But as you say, there is still plenty of hammers left. Once the last one is gone, I will offer my 2nd one for $200.
kidding.
But lets get these sold STAT. Roger wants a 2nd one, and there is lots more behind that which still need to sell. Like Joseph says above, touch base with your non-online buddies who signed up and then left the building and let them know that it's time to pay if they want one.
BTW, nice looking slings Fish!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Remember, #176 is a very special hammer, probably worth a lot more than $100. All for a good cause, in fact two good causes.
And thanks again to the team for their great work on this! A complicated project, and I'm very impressed that it all worked out. Even if I need a history lesson from Russ.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Next time I see you Anders we will have a history lesson.
Tell us a story Uncle Fish!
ION, FEM got the song all wrong... it's supposed to be 'like a D5'!!!
where is odub when you need him?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvgJEznqtms
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Just put my order in, thanks guys, I am proud and honored to own one of these and to be able to watch such an awesome project from beginning to end...my 1st hammer and the best in so many ways...time to put it to use...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Munge, Plastic, more like,
"Same as it ever was"
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