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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 12, 2010 - 10:02pm PT
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bluering, I was actually commenting that it is possible that the market for teachers may be driving the cost up...
...you wouldn't have the gov't intervene and dictate the maximum wage workers should earn.
If education is important, and there is a premium on the best teachers, their salaries will go up, and the cost of education will increase.
You seem to think I am advocating to spend more, I am actually celebrating that this under supported yet essential part of our economy is actually starting to earn at the level of its true worth. It's going to cost us, but it is worth the costs.
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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Sep 12, 2010 - 10:03pm PT
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Bluey is an unhinged red neck idiot
and people like him caused our all our problems in education in the first place
Did you see that he wanted to keep children from learnin things like "Worldly' and "progressive things"
He probably thought 1940s Nazi Germany did it right, and we went downhill since then
"Teach them what they need to know, how to follow the leader, no questions asked, its the patriotic thing to do"
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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Sep 12, 2010 - 10:14pm PT
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When states become too radicalized by right wing extremists
They need the Feds to come in and reign them in
Its for the better of the Nation overall, we don't want to let them start a breeding program for more American Taliban terrorists
the right wingers will never give up the fight to reduce education, since they know the smarter you are
the less likely you are to support their idiotic ideology
the easiest way to do it, defund it, as we have already done
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Sep 12, 2010 - 10:19pm PT
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When states become too radicalized by right wing extremists
They need the Feds to come in and reign them in
I'd agree, but do you realize what that entails??? Really?????
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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Sep 12, 2010 - 10:21pm PT
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Texas and Alaska want to succeed from America
Why, they are so right wing, that can not accept a Democratically elected president, and Congress,
so there is no other choice for them, succeed
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Sep 12, 2010 - 10:24pm PT
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What it means to be an American.
The so called best country in the world (USA) which makes its people work till 65 or later before retirement. Rather than retirement after time served say twenty or thirty years. Which in my case at 65, I will have worked for over forty years. My cousin who lives in Germany and is the same age as I, retired five years ago with a full pension fully paid medical. I still have eight more years to go. Now, if one was fortune enough to have a government job in this country in some cases the Europe standard is in affect. Also in some cases they don’t even pay into Social Security (like the rest of us) they pay into their own pension fund which upon retirement they can pull it out in a lump sum. Try that with Social Security at 65? It just goes to show that in this county government takes care of government and the rest of us just pay for it. Fortunately for myself I don’t have count on Social Security. But tens of millions do or are hoping too. It’s sad. One would think the most powerful nation on earth would do more to take care of its older folks. There is No reason for this, none.
Dogtown.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Sep 12, 2010 - 10:24pm PT
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If bluering is compiling links I'm going to open a bottle of Maker's Mark.
I got a bottle I finished yesterday....
And, wow, some people have some sh#t to throw my way. II's all good. If you feel good throwing sh#t at someone you disagree with, who are you???
Fools.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Sep 12, 2010 - 10:27pm PT
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Dogtown - the retirement age was increased to 67 for many of us and it's being considered that it go up to 70 for those born in 1960 and later. That includes me. I'll be dead before I retire. :)
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jstan
climber
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:14pm PT
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On Retirement:
If when working, you dream about sunning yourself in the south of France or climbing in the Dolomites then that is what you will do in retirement.
You will still dream about the the south of France and the Dolomites.
If you go to the Dolomites while working, that is what you will do in retirement. Go to the Dolomites.
Retirement changes the amount of time you have free to do what you do. Retirement also means you will fight with people on the internet instead of fighting with people who are angling for your job.
No change there either.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:28pm PT
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Texas and Alaska want to succeed from America
Why, they are so right wing, that can not accept a Democratically elected president, and Congress,
so there is no other choice for them, succeed
Hashbro,
You sure that "succeed" is the word you're looking for?
You sure that you're the person who should be commenting on other people's education?
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:34pm PT
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Thought that was a humorous typo myself. :)
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jstan
climber
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Sep 13, 2010 - 01:04am PT
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I think it was Gov. Long of Louisiana who reminded his staff who were in favor of secession, that the Union troops now had thermonuclear weapons.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Sep 13, 2010 - 09:48am PT
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I'm not picking on Hashbro at all. It is a tricky word - one I had to look up as my attempts all failed.
Fun that with the move of one letter, a totally different meaning is presented. And in the context, it was funny!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sep 13, 2010 - 10:06am PT
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Dogtown....very well put and the feds want to raise the retirement age to 70....reagan tried that maneuver during his reign of destruction....rj
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 13, 2010 - 01:23pm PT
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Ed wrote,
You seem to think I am advocating to spend more, I am actually celebrating that this under supported yet essential part of our economy is actually starting to earn at the level of its true worth. It's going to cost us, but it is worth the costs.
I agree that a good education is worth the cost. I think that Bluering does not.
What do you say Bluering. Is there an amount that you would pay a teacher?
You seem to believe that nothing the government does is good, but you accept that we have the best military, police and fire departments. All government entities.
So for you, it appears that you think that we should just demolish the education system and let everyone do it on their own. Is this correct? Do you think that government should be involved in education at all?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2010 - 11:13am PT
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The current pay structure for teachers is primarily a function of societies measure of their worth
That "measure of worth" that our American society puts on teaching is in large part an extension of the old west schoolmarm model of approach to public education. To this day too many Americans thing teachers should be satisfied with simple room and board for compensation. It is really tragic how little we value education and honor teaching.
Phucking Ignorant!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Sep 20, 2010 - 11:54am PT
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School is an ongoing test of effective Parenting. Why no benchmark standards for parenting?
What? You're a Moron? You married a moron? You bred a passel of morons? Your moron kids can't read. write or manage basic etiquette after 20 years of Parenting? What? Your idiot seed is failing in school? What?, you blame the teachers who see your spawn 4 hours a week?
Either that,
or you Blame Obama.
Why are Americans so f*#king ignorant?
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Sep 20, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Many times, the current pay structure is also an effect of legislative decisions. Many aspects of state budgets are fixed and can't be fooled with. Education often is not so it's one of few places cuts can be made and salaries in part reflect that.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 20, 2010 - 04:43pm PT
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The current issue of The Journal of Economic Perspective (Pittsburgh, American Economic Association, Summer 2010) contains a very interesting article by Staiger and Rockoff entitled "Searching for Effective Teachers with Imperfect Information," along with four other articles dealing with measuring teaching effectiveness and problems and suggested changes with No Child Left Behind. Although there is a lot of tehcnical discussion, the major thrusts of these articles are accessible to anyone who cares about this issue.
I have made copies for several educational professionals who are friends and/or relatives (both teachers and administrators), and look forward to their comments. Of course, I don't expect any comments from the teachers until after the school year is up, since they're up to their eyeballs in grading at the moment. Those interested can access it here: http://www.aeaweb.org/issue.php?journal=JEP&volume=24&issue=3
If anyone has the energy to read through all this, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks.
John
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Sep 20, 2010 - 04:59pm PT
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Hey Fattrad- do you have links to what schools got? I know that in many instances, schools/universities are able to use money for one-time expenditures (new buildings) but are prohibited from doing anything with a re-occurring expense (e.g., hiring people). Did the stimulus go to both types of items? I'm genuinely curious as one who works in the midst of budget bloodshed.
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