Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
Meanwhile, isn't it interesting that if I talk about astrology from the point of view of Indian cultural beliefs, including its role in determining eligible marriage partners, many western and certainly all western scientific people will judge it superstition, but probably find it somewhat bemusing. Yet if the same information appears on a paranormal thread, these Indian ideas suddenly become threatening and controversial??
|
|
Jim E
climber
away
|
|
ok, I am going to be unpleasant...
OMG! I can't stop laughing...
Pate, have you seen this 'documentary'?
Had the greasemonkey ST cloak running. Didn't realize I was missing such a classic... classic... whatever this is. Bummed I missed out on Ed's earlier "unpleasantness". I love it when Ed gets "unpleasant".
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
The Paranormal is just the part of reality we haven't got good tools or awareness of yet.
There was a time when science couldn't detect many of the forces that they can commonly measure now, and many principles of science, like ideas about time and space, would have sounded ridiculously paranormal before they were "Proved" to scientific satisfaction.
Pure arrogance to think we know so much when we've only been at scientific discovery for a few thousand years (really much less) what will we know in 75,000 years if we survive as a species that long?
Peace
Karl
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
|
|
Karl, not. We must have different dictionaries, different lexicons.
What you describe is the supernal. Supernal and supernatural are different. Supernal and paranormal are different.
Supernal describes (a) phenomena or (b) knowledge outside the realm of humanity, human sensory appartus or human understanding.
Paranormal describes ghosts, etc. Watch Poltergeist. Read a book by Sylvia Browne. That's paranormal.
Don't try to smooth over, air brush, the superstitious ignorance out there. It only leads to more trouble down the line.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Tony wrote
funny thing, jan, i kinda went through the same process after i got interested in things paranormal. i followed the newspaper horoscopes and found they pertained to me 0 percent of the time. worse than random there--a total flunk-out.
and Ed wrote
Jan - Indian Astrology determine the influences from the heavens in sixteen varga or divisions. Interestingly, I doubt that anyone posting on this thread believes that something as complex as a human personality can be described in such a small number of divisions.... certainly various tests of personalities are even more complex, and come to highly contentious conclusions.
Limited information is worse than no information. Those who know anything about astrology know that it's not only what sign your sun is in, but where that part of the zodiac is in the sky, as well as what part of the zodiac is rising on the horizon, plus the same information for all the planets and then angles they aspect themselves with. Then all those things moving constantly. It's hugely complicated and a good Indian astrologer studies with big dedication from a young age. LIke being an olympic gymnast, It's not considered something you can pick up later in life (although plenty do) It works because the universe is made of consciousness and everything is a reflection of the whole.
So newspaper astrology is almost worthless.
When I'm in India, I go to a cheap ($13) astrologer. One time I took my friend who didn't give him her legal name and he did her predictions right there without having any time to research her.
Here’s an abbreviated list of some specific stuff the Astrologer was able to state without knowing my friend or her real name:
How many brother and sisters she had, which ones have problems and the state of some of their health and marriages, which ones she is biologically related to
How many kids they had and how many died already,
That her mother and father are divorced
That she lives far from where she was born and that her mom returned there but that her dad lives close.
That she has a scar on her right knee
That she is a teacher
How many marriages, when they ended and why.
How many kids she has, their character, and relationship with her. Also miscarriages.
Type of childhood experiences (very specific)
What issues trouble her relationship and why (not generic)
It goes on and on. I guess some things are free will in this life but other stuff is scheduled in advance. Of course, we can choose how much to react and resist to any event.
But those who insist on denial will either have to ignore this or consider me nuts, but hey, it's not even me that's nuts, I got a witness for it.
PEace
karl
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
huffcuss certainly has a dictionary of his own. he has incorporated my less-than-authoritative greek etymology in it, and he took my idea of seasons and personality, posted a little earlier in this thread, and embellished it and coined a word for it: seasonology. he's quite nimble that way, but like wade, he only shops other people's pictures.
no need to apologize, pate--you owe me that beer anyway and maybe we'll be even then. but examples of hoaxes don't disprove the paranormal. this very thread has brought out a number of credible specimens.
dr. f, your explanation is exactly like ed's--a similar-looking cat from the neighborhood, never mind that she seems to live on a remote farmstead, knows the animals that frequent it, and this cat seemed to have had unique markings. your mind is made up precisely because you will be disturbed considering the implications of what she's saying. if you examine her narrative, the possibility of what you and ed suggest gets pretty slim. it puts you in the position of not believing credible reports because, basically, it messes with your system.
karl, yes, it was the newspaper astrology. don't know the first thing about what they do in india. you're making this up, right? getting that many things right puts the probability of random guessing pretty low. i think ed hartouni could probably give us a few impressive numbers. which means you're a god-damned liar, you as#@&%e. or to use huff's much more polite language, misinformationist.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
Sorry Fructose, but these kinds of experiences are common in India. Americans married to Okinawans have similar experiences when visiting local shamans. This leads me to believe that much of the information comes from the psychic dimension rather than astrology. Whatever the source, it's related to what the Indians call our personal karma.
If you want to hear about something else very interesting, get Karl to tell you about the book of Brigu.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
|
|
Bears repeating:
Yeah, I'm afraid we're no longer a science and technology culture but instead a celebrity and woowoo culture.
When China kicks our ass later this century, it won't be without a reason or two.
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
why, 'tis brigadoon.
out of words and repeating your pictures for emphasis--you guys are pathetic. at least ed keeps his mouth shut when he runs out of things to say.
--------
i guess what LEB saw, dr. f., was not enough evidence for those who choose not to believe in such things, or not to believe her. she says she saw what looked like her recently deceased cat, alive and in its usual position, on the lookout for chipmunks, which was the way it spent much of its life. she found this odd, went for the binocs to see whether it was just another cat, as you and ed are contending, and when she came back it was gone.
evidence is important. to judge this, we'd have to know something about LEB's neighborhood and the cat activity there. going by her report--not that many other cats around, hardly see any others, her cat had unusual markings and it seemed to be taking up a familiar position. no hard proof, just an inkling she had, strong enough to post it here and endure a predictable torrent of impolite skepticism. by the way, you fellows would be far more credible with polite and calm discussion. your sophomoric attacks belie a real discomfort.
what LEB describes has the characteristics of a haunt. i've never heard of an animal haunt, but it seems justthemaid has. casual evidence, yes, but look how it accumulates.
as i suggested previously, maybe i'm missing what's really going on here. maybe LEB is a masochist and you guys are all sadists and you're having the time of your lives beating and being beaten while i'm stupid enough to take it seriously. and damn the others for taking it seriously too, reporting prescient dreams and so forth.
admittedly, LEB's incident, if it wasn't a troll for ritual abuse, is not the strongest field report of the paranormal. other reports are far stronger. ask lolli about the ghost on her farm, seen by her children and then by herself. you'll have to tax yourself for that one--other people popping in from the neighborhood playing an elaborately planned peek-a-boo?
if we could ever get this subject out of the ghostbusters circus, we might get on to being analytical about it, which is what the material begs for. a certain receptivity on the part of the observer seems to be required. second glances, which bring more focused and rational attention, often make the visions disappear. yes, it has to do with the observer as well as the object, the psychology as well as the physics.
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
|
|
divad
Trad climber
wmass
|
|
maybe LEB is a masochist and all you guys are all sadists and you're having the time of your lives beating and being beaten while I'm stupid enough to take it seriously.
That right there, in a nutshell, pretty much sums up the LEB legacy on the Taco.
Hi Lois!
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
|
|
No, Pate, that there is just the more efficient way a climber hauls his partner's ass up a route.
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
thats the haul line...
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
I'm guessing that's not a Bible...
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!